PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Debt between 165-200 thousand Euros?
View Single Post
Old 13th Mar 2014, 16:42
  #25 (permalink)  
Bealzebub
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What an astonishing post.

Are you honestly suggesting that the majority of newly graduated cadets get permanent contracts immediately with no TR to pay for, health insurance for free, duty pay, flight pay, pension contributions? What is this mythical company of which you speak?
I am not sure why you perceive it as "astonishing" but nevertheless it is accurate. As to the last question, if you had read back a few posts I would appear to have answered when I said:
The reality is probably reflected to some degree in the proportionate volume of posts describing individual experiences, and far and away the bulk of them are anything other than encouraging. Nevertheless, for a few there are bright spots and it provides a proportionate degree of balance to point them out.

You are quite right, the majority will not find this experience and I have made that point time and time again.
In that case, people would be very wise to ignore his musings entirely since the vast majority of cadets graduating that particular flying school will not go anywhere near Monarch, nor the terms and conditions he mentions.
Honestly, I despair. What is the point of parading out the wonderful terms and conditions at Monarch when we all know that they take a handful here, a handful there while the other airline takes hundreds every year.
The answer is simple. Because these terms and conditions do exist despite the vociferous denials of many. They exist for cadets who become full time permanent employees and they exist for experienced pilots who are recruited to full time employment positions. They have existed for close on half a century. In the case of cadets this has been the case for over 15 years, and continues to be so. Ex-cadets make up nearly a nearly a third of the entire complement. In a company with a five decade history and significant renewal and expansion plans, these terms and conditions are relevant. I am sorry the numbers on offer do not meet with your personal approval and that such "musings" should be ignored. However, it is interesting that the T&C's for cadets at the big Orange airline have seemingly improved significantly over the last year. Ex-cadets from there who are now in the "experienced" category, have also joined us recently. suggesting something of a ripple effect.

Indeed you then go on to point out:

I don't think any of us doubt that the terms and conditions on offer at Monarch are enviable for new starters, nor that the company is one of the few remaining who apparently value treating their new pilot's properly.

The problem is they take a tiny fraction of the overall number graduating from the big three integrated FTO's. Can anyone tell us how many cadets Monarch have recruited directly out of one of these schools in the last 3, 6, 12 months? Can they also tell us how many have graduated in total within those same time frames? If you're going to plan your aviation career based on the slim possibility of getting in to Monarch you might as well pencil in "A380 Training Captain after ten years" as well, for those are the odds you rely on.

Much more responsible would be to point out that the vast majority of cadets who graduate from an integrated flying school will end up working for one of the major low cost airlines initially, ie easyJet or Ryanair. It is those terms and conditions that people should be focused on and planning for and not the lottery win of Monarch.
What you seem oblivious to, is the fact in that in the depths of a recessionary market (certainly over the last 5 years,) the major lo-co's were pretty much the only game in town for most people in the "cadet" marketplace. This was a dominance that those companies were not slow to realize. So if you want to highlight poor T&C's and doom & gloom generally, then look closer to home for an explanation.

As companies slowly emerge from recession, one or two airlines dominance is diminished, and as you are starting see for yourself, the T&C's are also starting to improve in at least one of those same dominant operators as well.

Giving a picture is about the whole picture, and not just the bits that suit you. There are any number of exponents of doom & gloom on these forums and many of them are mired in it. That doesn't exclude presenting the brighter spots, and nor should it.
Bealzebub is offline