Yes, there are certainly improvements to be made with handling automation but in both non-mechanical accidents the SOPs were not complied with. How much training do you need to stop someone going against the grain? The first CFIT accident happened because someone thought they could fly the aircraft better manually than using the automatics - a question of ethos whose roots are a lot deeper than just ops manuals and training. I agree with everything you say Jim with regards to automation, crash survivability etc. but I think it is just scratching the surface, a sticky plaster over what is sometimes a broken industry. I will say no more on the subject so you can all get on and argue over chuffin rebreathers (which up front we have never had...).