PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
Old 18th Feb 2014, 17:31
  #2259 (permalink)  
helmet fire
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the cockpit
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I think finally someone has said it......skyrangerpro


This is not a fuel problem! Let's get back on track. There could have been 90, 100 or even 150kg in the main tank. Still the same problem.

It was simply in the wrong place.The pilot either thought there was fuel in the supply tank when there wasn't or knew that there wasn't but couldn't do anything about it.
There are no new accidents... Old Jungle Saying.

I recall a BK117 double flame out in the USA due to the pilot leaving primes on and transfer pumps off after start. He never quite believed he was in trouble because main tank showed 350kg all the way to the ground - even though the supply tanks went lower and lower until they read 0. I don't know if the 135 is the same, but there are no "fuel fences" or other ways to transfer fuel. He also had warning cautions set to dim from previous nights flight so it was thought he could have missed some lights.

I recall a UK A109 double flame out due to the pilot feeding both engines from only one side due to confusion with the fuel system and doing the auto with 110kg still in the other side. Contributing was the display system for the cross feed.

Both involve fuel system issues coupled with indication issues or complexities....sounds similar to this Glasgow one.... though it is WAY too early to point that finger. The AAIB will uncover the inevitably complex interaction of many factors that put this pilot in that moment in time.

As I said before, I think this one will be about the cognitive space the guy had when he began getting indications that something was not right. And I am convinced that what happened to him will be revealed as something that could have happened to me.

And TC, I will take up your challenge.... The last time a seasoned aviator suffered a non planned double engine flame out and decaying NR at my company was last week in the regular sim training sessions. As they do yearly. A couple of red screens is a marvellous way to create muscle memory and the resulting freeing up of cognitive processing capacity at critical times.... And not just autos. At least IMHO.

I know you will say it is not "real" but I can tell you the way we set them up ensures that they do not understand why it is happening, nor are they in the least bit prepared for it. But as an example of a real one, try the seasoned Peter Cook from Hunter Rescue in NSW. Sudden double engine decouple from main rotor due mechanical issues after last light in a 412 with a successful unaided auto to the ground. He does do sim training if that is relevant here.
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