PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
Old 15th Feb 2014, 23:55
  #2095 (permalink)  
Wageslave
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: uk
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I keep seeing comments about "Pilot Incapacitation"....yet we are confronted with evidence that shows the aircraft engines ran out of fuel and quit running.

If you think the Pilot was incapacitated at the same time the aircraft is running out fuel.....that would seem a huge coincidence indeed.

Stick to the facts and work from there.

Why did the Engines stop getting fuel?

Why did the Pilot fail to take effective action following the second engine failure?

Lowering the Collective Lever is not that difficult....is something we all know to do....but yet in this tragedy....it appears not to have happened.

Focus on that....as it was the last link in the chain but yet the most simple, most logical, and the single most important reaction to situation. Done properly, the outcome might have been a very bad landing....but at least one that would have provided for a better outcome than that which occurred.

All this discussion about pink paste, sequence of caution/warning lights is fine...but does not get to the basic issues.

A very qualified, experienced, well trained Pilot did not take the one action that everything hinged upon.....maintaining Rotor RPM.

That resulted in the Fatal Crash....everything else just set the chain of events into action to force the situation that required that action by the Pilot.

Since there was no CVR or other recordings of conversations in the aircraft....or Data Recorders to show control movements and other useful data....we shall never know exactly what happened. The AAIB will not be able to state with clarity what actually transpired in regard to the Pilot's actions or in-action and will in all likelihood state something like "Pilot failed to maintain Rotor RPM." as part of their Final Report.

We know that already....the physical evidence confirms that.

The "Incapacitation" I see is a failure to realize the aircraft was running out of fuel and a failure to properly react to the indications.....and upon the second engine quitting....a failure to carry out an EOL landing procedure.

I want to know "Why" the Pilot did not respond to what was clearly an Emergency Situation when the first Engine flamed out. When you are getting Low Fuel cautions and then an Engine quits....how much more "Waving Red Flags" does One need to understand the severity of the Situation?
Interesting, isn't it? I made almost exactly the same comments last night and was flamed in the most appalling and offensively personal manner by tobias & tandemrotor (apparently untouchable paragons amongst pilots) and yet here we have the same arguments being made blame-free!

It really is extraordinary how some people seem able to absolutely deny the possibility of pilot error even when it is unarguably the case. I personally prefer to stick with the normal principles of professional integrity, logic and honesty and where a pilot appears to have made a mistake to admit to it, rather than take the extraordinary, blinkered and utterly bigoted approach that no pilot (especially one so well thought of, such a fine fellow and so. so professional) could not possibly have made a mistake.

Right. I've now made myself a target for all sorts of shyte. I know that. But why? When we know that 75% of accidents are caused by human factors is it so wrong to admit this is the likely cause?

The facts here are that after a series of possibly confusing (since when was that ever an excuse in the sim??) fuel warnings a sequential engine failure occurred and the pilot failed to react in the most fundamental manner by lowering the collective. Now, I don't care how much you liked him, no much how he was a popular guy. no much how he was so professional that he couldn't have done that the fact is that he did. Mr. the helicopter expert Tobias seems to think "not having time" to lower the collective in time after an engine failure is an acceptable action. I, however, as a mere career Professional helo pilot beg to differ, as would every QHI I've ever flown a base check with but I gather he knows better. What an extraordinary statement! Not enough time? I've never heard that excuse for dying before but I gather tobias knows better! Simply staggering! The failure to maintain Nr in the event of an engine failure is the first, primary and most fundamental requirement of a helo pilot. I gather that Tobias seems to think that there is a flexible timescale attached to this action and that failure to retain useable Nr is an excusable event. The mind boggles. Given a series of albeit confusing fuel cautions it seems inconceivable that a pilot would not react appropriately to the sequential engine failures that followed yet that seems to be what happened.

Rather than taking all this self evident information an excuse for wailing about running down the poor pilot - which it clearly is not - (this is merely accepting the reality of what happened) - and we know it could have happened to any of us - we'd do far better to accept the apparently unthinkable yet statistically unassailable fact that 80% of aircraft accidents are down to human failures.

This blind, fanatical and messianic (tandemrotor) unwillingness to accept that humans failed when the evidence points to that and to nothing else whatsoever (here at least the poor fellow seems to have had confusing fuel indications - at least we know that, as opposed to the Chinook that flew into the M Of K apparently and with no suggestions otherwise entirely serviceable)

People make mistakes.

This bizarre and irrational politically (in)correct fanaticism to refuse to accept any possible fault in a dead driver is simply dishonest. It may not be palatable but we know that the vast majority of accidents are caused by human factors, and trying to absolve the humans by inventing the most ludicrously unlikely excused for their accident does them no honour. Just let it be accepted that even the nicest bloke, the finest pilot, the best buddy can screw up. I can. You can. Why can't they? Why is it such a problem to accept that the dead could have made a mistake?

As to the the reasons leading to the mistake - another matter .

There are clearly problems in the design of the fuel system which I'm sure will be resolved, but the reasons why a well trained and experienced pilot failed to take the most basic, fundamental actions after an engine failure are unlikely to be determined. This is in NO WAY a reflection on the pilot, he was a human being just like the rest of us and subject to the same faults and falibilities. Poor bloke clearly didn't gat it right for whatever reason. Why? Guess we'll never know, but let's not blame him for that. let's try to learn for the future.
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