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Old 10th Jan 2014, 08:37
  #162 (permalink)  
lifeafteraviation
 
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I had always thought that a straight in approach was permissible if the runway was in sight and a normal landing was assured, even if no straight in minimums were published.

aterpster says no, and I would think he would know.
Listen to what galaxy flyer wrote above....it is accurate.

I think he explained it a lot clearer than I could.

I also agree the training issue was off track. If it's not in the AFM, you can't do it in the airplane except under the conditions I mentioned earlier (emergency and manufacturer certification). Special authorizations issued to operators is another exception he mentioned I didn't think about because I've never seen one. Who trains in the airplane these days anyway?

Practicing zero flap landings in the sim and on your check ride is required, that's why we do it (not sure about Pt 91 only checks but I'm guessing that too). If you do it without declaring an emergency you are probably going to get into big trouble if you bend the airplane. Like most things, if you get away with it, it just means you're lucky.

Another thing to mention....a visual approach is an instrument procedure, not VFR. Most jets that land in ASE use the visual approaches unless, as galaxy flyer mentioned, they have a special authorization which most smaller or individual operators do not. Airlines and larger operators have such special authorizations placing them in an operational advantage but the crews typically have to complete initial and recurrent training specific to the approach so there's a significant cost involved.

Some jets can circle category C...I can't list any specifics right now...been a while for me. Someone mentioned Gulfstreams with a supplemental certification...I haven't heard that but it makes sense to me.

Telluride (TEX) is a better example because it's restricted to category A and B circling only and basically those approaches are off limits to jets. Jets go in there all the time and they fly the procedure. The way they do it is they are cleared for the visual approach from the minimum altitude and then follow the procedure because it provides some guidance but they can't meet the restrictions so it must be visual. If a jet is cleared for the procedure they are probably in violation even in VMC.

Clearly from this thread there is a lot of confusion about all this and just because you see other people doing it or have done it in the past doesn't mean it's legal or safe.

If you want to really confuse people lets start talking about takeoff minimums and runway analysis. There's an area where a large number of pilots routinely violate the rules and have no idea. It makes landing criteria seem easy.
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