Originally Posted by
mad_jock
Well having been flipped over the top in a cessna 152 into a spin which wouldn`t recover using the POH method and required full power to be applied before the rudder got any authority by doing just that but with the flight instructor instructor demoing a botched steep turn you crack on.
BTW it spun faster than tommy we lost 4k feet before he recovered it with 500ft left.
Sounds very like that other special of hanging in the air fannying around with the rudder pedals while holding it in the stall.
It took nearly twenty years and a rudder falling off an airbus to stop that lifting wing with the rudder nonsense.
I have spoken to a few other pilots that have also been in that mode and required power to get it out. I have never found anything documented on this alternative mode or for that matter a published recovery procedure.
Its is definitely not the usual Cessna spin which almost recovers itself if you let go of everything.
From 5000ft we recovered at 500ft agl to S&L coming out of rotation at 1000ft agl
Genghis with your boffin hat on have you got any ideas what was going on?
Hmmm, unsure from the amount of information to go on. I'll give it a stab, but may wel be completely wrong.
I'm guessing you had reasonable power on when you entered the spin, which probably meant you saw a higher AoA than would be normal, it *may* have locked you into a different to normal spin mode. Possibly one with the wings locked stably into a higher AoA condition that would be normal. I'm assuming it was an erect spin (yaw and roll in the same direction) as opposed to an inverted spin (way and roll in opposite directions)?
Sounds to me not dissimilar to two spin modes that I have seen - one is the high rotational flattish spin mode achievable in the Bulldog through introduction of some in-spin aileron during an erect spin, the other is the power-on erect spin to the left in the Tucano, which is not particularly fast, but extremely stable.
So, you were in a fast and very stable spin, too stable for primary controls to get you out of and the only control available was apparently the throttle, so you gave it a go. Clearly a good guess as you survived the experience.
Introducing power, added torque at the propeller, this should have created oscillatory pitching and yawing moments, and my guess is that in addition to the effect you were getting inputs from the controls, this got you out of the spin. In the Tucano it would do that in one direction, although in the other would just stabilise the spin even more.
The Bulldog of course has suffered a number of "inexplicable" spinning losses over the years, generally when captained by very experienced service QFIs who can reasonably be assumed to have known what they were doing.
Somewhat disconcerting for you I'm sure, but re-inforces a couple of my prejudices:-
- Most aeroplanes have potential for an undiscovered spin mode somewhere that can bite, and was not found in the original flight test programme.
- Spinning and/or aerobatics without a personal parachute and route out of the aeroplane is silly, however well understood we *think* that the type is.
G