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Old 28th Dec 2013, 17:05
  #167 (permalink)  
surplus1
 
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I personally don't believe it. Of all the organizations, courts, lawyers, victims families NTSB is probably the most honest, competent and impartial body. By the way it's European, Canadian counterparts are equally good but you go outside of North Atlantic or Euro-Asian countries and political, cultural, even religious considerations start playing significant role in aircraft investigations. And my God! specially courts and 'experts' hired by some side are the furthest from any impartiality. Let's not forget you can come up with the most bizarre theory about the accident to deflect the blame and you will find an expert to testify on your behalf as some recent GA accident court cases showed. So called courts of law are the last place to seek truth in crashes but they are definitely a good place to seek millions $$.

What you say about lawyers and courts and the money interests in litigation is of course true; victims and their lawyers seek millions.

What you conveniently chose to overlook, or naively avoid considering, apparently, is that manufacturers of airframes and their components have precisely the same interest; money .... except that the amount is multiplied to the 20th power. It's not millions, it is hundreds of millions. The plethora and quality of lawyers and "experts" they employ to protect their products and avoid any liability dwarfs the capacity of victims groups by a factor of ten. The same is true of airlines, though to a lesser extent.

Keep in mind also that victims and their families are not represented on accident investigation boards. They have no ability for input to the board's decision making process. Therefore, their only recourse is to the courts and always after the probable cause has already been determined.

The pilots are in much the same boat as the passengers. In most serious accidents the pilot(s) usually perish along with the passengers. A dead man is unable to defend himself. The airline will defend its pilots only if that helps it to defend itself. The airline couldn't care less about a dead pilots reputation or good name. No, it defends its selection process, its training program, its procedures, but never its pilots. Unless the pilot is a member of a very strong syndicate (labor union) he is defenseless and has no input before the board. Even when there is a labor union, the defense it will provide for the pilot is directly related to the size of the airline for which he worked and thus the number of members it represents. If you happen to work for a small airline you don't get the same defense that you get if you work for large legacy carrier with a big (numerically) pilot group; not by a long shot. In the United States, the pilots union (if he has one) will have "status" with the board and participate in the investigation. That however is not always the case in other venues. Otherwise the pilot is up the creek without a paddle - dead - and with no one to defend him.

In marked contrast the manufacturer, e.g., Boeing or Airbus, or Bombardier or Embraer, etc, will always have full representation on the board and be an active participant in the investigation ..... with the full ability to influence the board's decision making process.

If you believe they do that in the interest of finding the truth or promoting safety you are indeed naive. They do that to protect their own interest and welfare to the extent possible. They have no interest in truth unless it can be used to exonerate them from liability or adverse publicity. Such interest as they have in safety is for the very same reason .... if a flaw in their product can be proven, correcting it will protect them from adverse publicity and future liability. When that is not the case they do everything in their power to defend their product no matter who they have to throw under the bus. That person(s) is most often the pilot(s).

The members of the Board itself are almost always people of integrity who do have a genuine interest in truth and safety. However, there are only 5 of them (NTSB). But, if you think they cannot be influenced then you don't know much about accident investigation. The Board is small and doesn’t have the resources to do everything independently. It needs the assistance of manufacturers and governments. Remember also that, in the United States, members of the Board are political appointees and very often are not aviation or transportation experts themselves. The scope of the US Board is quite broad and includes non-aviation accidents. Much of its technical expertise comes from the industry rather than itself. When it suspects criminal activity (such as an intentional crash) that occurs in US airspace, it turns the investigation over to the FBI or the Justice Department. It can't do that if the accident/incident occurred outside of US territory (because it is not in charge).

ATTN: Alexander de Meerkat


In this forum I have read countless criticisms and even accusations against accident investigation boards, particularly the French, the Russians and especially Asian and less developed countries. Interestingly the critiques almost all seem to come from British or USA pilots who seem to believe their aeronautical skills and culture are superior to those of pilots elsewhere in the world. Well, whether it makes me unpopular or not, the fact is that British, Canadian, Australian and US boards, are no less subject to influences and cultural prejudices than those in other countries. In the East the motivation may be called “cultural”; in the West it is called money, prejudice and arrogance.

I recommend you read again the report of The Seattle Times --

[url=http://seattletimes.com/news/local/737/part01/. [/url]

It’s in 5 parts, which can be selected in the upper left-hand corner (of each page). Read all five parts, you may gain some insight. It is one of the most objective sequence of articles I’ve ever seen from a newspaper.

I’m retired now, long since, but was an airline pilot for 40 years. I’ve read a lot of accident reports and even had occasion to participate in an investigation or two. While I am not positive of the number, I believe you can count on one hand the confirmed, beyond a reasonable doubt, instances of an airline pilot committing suicide, or attempting it, and deliberately murdering all or some of his passengers in the process. I think of Egypt Air 990, Air Maroc 630, and JAL 350. Can you provide other confirmed accounts? Note: SilkAir may be suspected (by the NTSB) but is by no means confirmed.

We will have to wait for more direct information to be released with respect to the LAM (Mozambique) crash before intelligent opinions can be formed. It’s still a mystery.
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