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Old 21st Dec 2013, 06:22
  #138 (permalink)  
Owain Glyndwr
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West of Offa's dyke
Age: 88
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@Chris

I notice that OG has so far not specifically disputed rudderrudderrat's calculation that a trade of kinetic energy by zoom climb from an airspeed of 112 kt to 107 kt (assuming a steady wind) would provide an altitude gain of 52 ft.
Partly because as an energy calculation it is unexceptional, partly because of proccupation with another task in conjunction with a mutual friend and partly because I didn't want to get too involved in a debate about what is actually a complex issue.
The missing parameter is, once again, time. A zoom climb being essentially a pull up manoeuvre one has to consider the 'g' available to execute such a pull up. One might expect the lift curve to be nonlinear up near alphamax, so that is one complication. Ignoring any nonlinearity but allowing for the zero lift AOA, we might expect an available 'g' of about 1.1 at 14.5 deg AOA falling to 1.00 at 17.5 deg.

That is going to mean that the latter part of any zoom climb is going to be prolonged, and in practice indistinguishable from an (unsustainable) steady climb. If a full zoom is going to take a long time then if the intent were to clear the trees by another 50ft or so the zoom would have to have been initiated well back down the runway. In fact of course any zoom is only needed to give just enough clearance to avoid impact so that only the first part of any pull up is relevant and once again timing of such a manoeuvre is critical.

For me, that issue is covered by the BEA report statement I quoted in earlier posts.

Other calculations show that if the sidestick had been brought back faster or earlier during the accident flight, an AoA greater than 15° would have been obtained before the impact on the trees. They also show that without an earlier thrust increase such a manoeuvre, which would have led to an increase in the instantaneous drag of the aircraft would not have permitted (the aircraft) to avoid impact with the trees.
PS I agree with your comments on 'stall' getting in the way.
PPS I'll let John Farley make any comments on ski-jumping.

Last edited by Owain Glyndwr; 21st Dec 2013 at 15:34. Reason: comment from Confiture
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