Originally Posted by cosmo kramer
A circling is rightly a visual maneuver, but flown in IMC conditions. You are proposing to fly looking out the window when flying downwind. What visual reference do you expect to have? Is the terrain sloping, what horizon do you have to ensure a safe flight attitude? NONE. You have a pitch black, wet windscreen with mountains hiding ahead at a, by the authorities, precalculated safe distance. Flying a circling approach at night, in low vis, rain poring down your window, strong gusts and turbulence... I prefer you keep your eyes on the attitude indicator, not looking over your shoulder for the runway... thank you.
I hope that you take this post in the spirit in which it is offered … I have no intent to insult or belittle you in any way … I just wanted to offer the recognition of a concern and an explanation…
My concern is that you either are not aware of what the regulations say or have either misinterpreted it or have had it inappropriately explained to you. I know of no one who would write – let alone publish - the statement you made above, for anyone/everyone to see! I would encourage you to talk with someone who knows what rules are and knows how they can be, and often are, enforced - and I'm sure you know someone who would fit that description.
The answer to the first question you asked above (What visual reference do you expect to have?) is simple – I (and any other pilot with a license that I know) would expect to be able to see an identifiable part of the airport on which I expect to land. If I was not able to see and identify something I knew to be on the airport and knew exactly where on the airport that object was located, I would, in compliance with sound thinking AND the regulations, immediately execute the required missed approach. The understanding is that if the pilot knows what is seen on that airport, and knows the location of both what is seen AND the runway on that airport, there will be sufficient information to continue to fly toward where the airplane will be safely aligned with the runway to complete a safe approach and landing. That is a continual process – such that if at any time the pilot can no longer continue to see an identifiable portion of that airport, the regulation is clear, a missed approach must be initiated. There is a reason the FAA publishes
regulations … and not
recommendations. If a pilot accepts a clearance for a “circle-to-land,” and then deliberately elects to disregard what may or may not be visible “out the window” (and looking out the window during a circle-to-land is not as unimaginable as you may believe) that pilot has to be aware that he/she has just deliberately decided to operate contrary to an FAA Regulation. If the conditions ever get to a point similar to those conditions you described (i.e., pitch black, wet windscreen, mountains hiding ahead, low visibility, rain pouring down, strong gusts, and turbulence) and the pilot believes those conditions exceed his/her ability to continue with the task at hand (i.e., continue to circle to align with and then land on the designated runway) I would whole heartedly recommend that this pilot execute an immediate missed approach. Executing such a decision is, unfortunately, thought by many to be an admission of poor performance – and that is simply untrue! Executing a missed approach is a professional response to a professionally recognized set of circumstances that have been determined, by that professional, to exceed that professional’s knowledge and/or ability. AND, anyone who would criticize any pilot for making such a decision is, in my not-so-humble opinion, less than worthy of being called a pilot!
Originally Posted by cosmo kramer
A runway you won't be able to see anyway, because the co-pilots head is in the way and the rest is covered by the circuit breaker panel…
…and that is why the regulation does not require that the pilot continually maintain visual contact with the runway – only that the pilot maintain visual contact with an identifiable part of the airport – again, presuming that the pilot knows where the runway IS in relation to what on that airport that pilot can continue to see.
Originally Posted by cosmo kramer
Either you never tried or obviously forgot how humbling an experience it can be to fly to an airport with a complete dark environment (no moon, no cities), even on a good night, without rain, without turbulence, on a straight in, on an ILS, with the autopilot engaged! We have lots of those airports in our route structure, and most of them require circling if unfavorable wind.
I’d prefer to not get into a comparison of your respective logbook entries, number of hours flown, number of airplane types flown, places departed from, or where we’ve each landed an airplane. Those kinds of things simply no longer matter to me … but, suffice it to say that I vividly recall doing just what you say … although doing so with an A/P engaged didn’t come until I’d been around the pattern more than a few times.
During my career, I have earnestly attempted to ensure that I learned it (whatever “it” was) completely, developed a confidence on which I could depend, and then, when my career evolved into teaching and evaluating, I’d like to think that I took that level of understanding and humility along with me and was reasonably successful in using that as a primary characteristic in my teaching and evaluation. No one “knows” everything about everything – and everyone has to “learn” before they “know.” Not everyone has the same inherent abilities for everything they attempt. I’ve seen THE most agile basketball players bounce off their *ss when attempting to get onto an ice skating rink; and I’ve seen pilots perform the very best “Immelmann turn” and return to land only to “prang” one that likely should have blown the tires – and almost everything in between.
The “circle-to-land” authority was envisioned to assist pilots in landing at airports/runways that may not (or not yet) have a precision approach to assist landings on THAT runway in inclement weather. It’s the same thing with a “contact approach.” BUT, there are specific requirements that are associated with each – and those requirements are there for a reason. If, as you describe, the airport is on the opposite side of the cockpit from the person flying the airplane – logic would dictate that the other pilot (on whose side the airport/runway IS) should be one manipulating the controls to maneuver the airplane – otherwise the requirements are not met. The rule doesn’t say the maneuver may be continued as long as “someone” in the cockpit can maintain visual contact … it says, and, again, I quote from 14CFR Part 91.175(e)(2):
Each pilot … shall immediately execute an appropriate missed approach procedure when … the following condition exists:
(1)…
(2) Whenever an identifiable part of the airport is not distinctly visible to the pilot during a circling maneuver at or above MDA, unless the inability to see an identifiable part of the airport results only from a normal bank of the aircraft during the circling approach.
Please note … the language does not say that the approach may continue “when the airport is hard to see” or “the pilot can continue if someone else sees the necessary ground objects” ... or anything else.
I would hope that anyone reading this thread would take the time to reevaluate their own knowledge and abilities and determine not to attempt anything beyond that knowledge and those abilities ... and certainly determine to not deliberately operate an airplane contrary to the existing rules under which that flight is conducted.