Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub

[the_flying_cop]

Just to throw a couple of points in here to answer some of the observer related questions. I have not worked at this particular unit, but can offer some general comments.

The majority of observers I have met over my years were not particularly aviation minded. In this i mean, they obviously loved being in the air, but did not have a burning desire to be at the controls. Indeed in my unit, it was actively discouraged. I can remember my former boss clearly stating during the selection and training process that pilots are there to do the flying and the observers were there to observe what was happening on the ground.

Obviously, this could never be a hard and fast rule, and with mandatory CRM training and so forth, as crews evolved into close knit teams, the pilots could not help but get involved in the police work, and some observers assisted with some aspects of the flying. When I say assist, im talking in terms of pointing out hazards such as powerlines, birds, other traffic etc, missed radio calls from ATC and so on, not the actual hands on stuff. Dual controls were only fitted during periods of pilot training such as LPC's and OPC's.

I have always been fascinated with aviation and joined the police with the sole intention of getting onto the Air Support Unit. I have been a PPL holder and have always had an unhealthy attraction to the flying side of things in addition to doing my observing. So I have a little knowledge in both camps if you will.

As mentioned above, the nightsun is powered only when the mission bus is on, and power is coming from both generators. Perhaps i can answer a couple of points here.

I always found the nightsun to be more of a burden than an aid. It was never pointing in the right position when you needed it, and took an age to get it pointing where you actually needed it. Trying to slave it to the camera was nigh on impossible. This was under a normal workload. You would probably be looking in the area of a minute maybe more to get it to point where you wanted.

I notice that on library images of G-SPAO the nightsun is mounted at the front and is forward facing, but even so, it would still take valueable time to position.

More importantly, it was never to be operated at less than 500' AGL due to the possibility of someone on the ground being blinded or distracted by it.

I have tried to put myself in the position of the crew on that fateful night, and through all the scenarios i have envisaged using the infomation posted here and in the media, i cannot think of one where i would have considered the use of the nightsun as a landing aid in the circumstances the crew were faced with on that night. the only time it would have ever been considered would be if we had needed to conduct an ad hoc landing at night. even at the best of times, these landings present many dangers.

As mentioned before, the intercom is not routinely recorded, just the radio traffic between the crew and the ground.

Downlink is not routinely used. On the 135 the aerial is stowed horizontally and is motored down for use and back up for landing. If they were en route back to the unit, chances are this would have been stowed as per the approach checks.

The camera is always recording, however, it is standard practice during take off and landing to have it stowed, facing rear. This reduces the risk of the lens being damaged by FOD and also means less cleaning squashed flies off.

I have some questions of my own if i may, and please forgive any lack of technical knowledge.

Birdstrike?

Birdstrikes have been mentioned several times on the thread, but I am struggling with how this could have been the case. From what has been presented so far, the suggestion is that the aircraft had very little, if any, horizontal speed. Additionally, I have not experienced or know of much bird activity at around 700' AGL at night. Am i correct in thinking that if a bird came into the vicinity of a hovering helicopter, the only real damage could be through ingestion into the engines? If it flew towards the cabin, would the downwash not push it away? Similarly, if it got into the disc area, surely it would be shredded and not cause an issue? If by some miracle it hit the cabin intact, it would surely not be capable of causing any damage, just like a bird flying into your kitchen window?

Tumbling?

Witness accounts have suggested the aircraft tumbled through the air end to end. Can someone explain how this could be possible, even more so if the engines were off. I would have thought that any violent departure would have been a very noisy affair, directly contrasting the serenity that has been described. Other than a huge cyclic input, what might cause this?

Rotors

I still cannot fathom how the pictures of the MR blades show so little damage. And if the aircraft did fall with rotors stopped, how could this possibly happen. I understand the concept of auto rotation, and NR decay, but to actually have them stop whilst in the air, is this possible?

Mechanical failure.

I have a rough understanding of how the transmissions work, but tying in with the rotor question, if the MGB failed, would this cause the rotors to stop, or just go into freewheeling. I am probably way off the mark here, but I understood it to be that if the blades stopped then the cabin would rotate in the opposite direction. Similarly, if the tail rotor failed, am i right in thinking that the cabin would spin the opposite way to the MR? Looking at the impact, it is apparent that there was no cabin rotation going on. I am curious why there was no grounding of the fleet straight after. As some have suggested, this could mean that the AAIB are fully aware of the cause, but are waiting for some confirmation before releasing any details.

I have so many questions, and I am grateful for the insight that many of you have provided on the thread thus far. It is always a tricky thing to discuss as we are all obviously devastated at the loss, but being part of the rotary family we are all desperate for information and answers. Time will hopefully reveal all. My gut feeling at this time is that they managed to land on the roof and were then dealt the cruellest of blows as the roof collapsed.


Edit: partially deleted.