PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
Old 2nd Dec 2013, 12:56
  #325 (permalink)  
zorab64
 
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So much reading and, sadly, so much rubbish to filter. Herewith a little clarification I hope, at least that's what's intended. Some comments have been made / questions asked by more than one poster.

Skyshout is not part of considered options in any real emergency - identify the problem, react to the problem with the appropriate actions but, foremost, fly the aircraft.

Using the camera or downlink does not mean the recorder is recording. They are three different, but connected systems. Daylight or thermal image camera is used & viewed on aircraft screens; intercom and up to four relevant Police radio transmissions can be selectively recorded if necessary for evidence; and/or downlinked if it might be useful to a control room. As already mentioned, Police aircraft are not fitted with "black boxes".

Misformonkey (#190) - no, there is no penalty for OGE hovering so long as it's flown within the normal aircraft limits, as it should be at all times. The only problem is the tail boom, which needs more regular cleaning due to the exhaust gasses.

Helilog56 (#218) Whitehead06 has more experience in this field than almost anyone in UK Police Air Support - don't.

Redhill Phill, tartare #304 & others - I think the post using the bicycle analogy has been the simplest. The item in question is called a "freewheel", and there are two in the combiner gearbox, one for each engine, such that if an engine loses power, it stops driving. If you enter a practice autorotation, the blades rotate faster than the engines & the freewheels allow the engines to a "flight idle", ready to re-engage as soon as the rotor speed drops, due to collective input.
Looking at the recovery video, my earlier assertion that the engines were not driving the rotors at time of impact would seem not far off the mark. Two full blades have been cut off post accident, the other two broken at the root weak point when they were stopped or broken by the ground structure - you can see the delaminated carbon fibre main spars at the end of the control cuffs.

Pilot DAR #257- you hypothesise correctly in principle - i.e. using as much rotor inertia as possible in the flare & final stages is exactly what you want to minimise impact forces but, when it's all over, there'll be no lift & the full weight of the aircraft will rest on whatever's touching terra firma.

mjb #268 - once an engine is alight, it tends to stay that way. The ignitors do not operate once they've done their job & got a flame going and, in any case, make no significant noise over the noise of the aircraft if there'd been a flame-out, for instance, and they were try to re-light.

vaquearoareo #291 - NVG are not widely used in UK Police aviation. There's some pretty good kit that does a similar job and NVG has greatest validity when operating close to the ground, which is not how the aircraft are operated most of the time, since they are better able to support the ground officers with the advantage of 1000'+ operating altitude - it's also less annoying for the law-abiding majority!

The recovery video speaks volumes to those who know the airframe. For those that normally sit in the cabin, it's very sobering. The blade roots, I've mentioned (as have others since I started typing!). The missing port skid, and damaged starboard one (see flotation bag at the rear) may show the initial landing was mostly right way up, if heavy. The fact that the tail-boom appears intact up to the joint with the fin is also interesting, although my earlier thoughts that the aircraft landed & then rolled left into the pub when the roof collapsed may appear from a confusion between photos taken from different ends of the site, although it still it may be that the cabin damage was caused post impact. It's also possible that the first thing to hit hard was the tail itself - not always surprising with a high nose-up decellerative attitude if in auto - even though there would seem to have been some "twist" involved around the tail-fin area, and not much separation with forward speed?

It remains an entirely tragic event but, as with others that have caused heated debate amongst professionals, journos & others (e.g. Gazelle -Honnister accident), it was the professionals who read things straight. This one is a lot more confusing, but for those who continue to do this job (and especially in this aircraft type) it is most important to try & understand what might have happened so that they can remain assured their machine will not leave them in the lurch. I remain confident that this is one of the best helicopters in the world for the job but, as with every accident & incident, this forum allows open thought and reassurance for many others. We've had a fantastic record of safe operations in this country, specifically in Police aviation, but the AAIB & industry experts will find the answers in due course.

Last edited by Jetdriver; 3rd Dec 2013 at 12:43.
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