And at KA we still do circling approaches in wide bodies, with just as little practice at visual approaches as any other operator in the region, including our Korean friends. The majority of our new FOs with less than 200 hours to support an uncurrent guy. How long til we bend one guys? Oh, hang on, we have bent a couple (Zuhai, Okinawa etc). Whats the next question we need to ask, how long til someone dies, or has that been 'risk assessed' as part of doing business? Lets hope the risk assessors are on board when it happens.