PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Asiana flight crash at San Francisco
View Single Post
Old 10th Jul 2013, 09:48
  #1382 (permalink)  
RAT 5
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've tried to read back through the whole thread and had brain ache; please forgive if these comments have been made.
I train lots of whizz-kid cadets on a lesser VNAV/LNAV Boeing. In FBS they treat it like a play station with fingers dancing over the buttons of MCP & CDU like Liberace. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes not, and then the piano playing starts again. What I then have to beat out of them is not to sit as a passneger in the cockpit and watch the A/P take them for a ride, but to engage with the a/c and cover the controls, monitor what it is doing and confirm it is what you want. If not take over with hands & feet. I wonder if PF had their hands on the thrust levers, or was sitting back unattached expecting it to handle it. If connected to the a/c surely it is a natural thing to do to shove up the power it A/T is not doing it.Never been to SFO, but people talk of ATC imposed 'slam dunk' visual approaches. Really? Who is responsible for and in charge of the a/c. How can ATC paint a commander into a corner on a visual approach. What happened to " no can do," or "we'll turn when ready," or "need a couple of more miles."??[LIST]People have said crews after 11 hrs flight should not be subject to pure visual approaches when tired. Does 777 not have VNAV PTH approach technology? I see from the chart that there is an approach profile with alt v distance. I assume this is in the FMC data base. You select this, plug in A/P to it and when all nice a stable about 1000' - 500' you disconnect, do a little fine tuning and land. The lack of visual guidance and trying to use a long defunct Mk.1 eyeball is not the only way. If using VNAV PTH it is possible to attack it from above, but not comfortable. You have the vertical deviation info and act accordingly well in advance. The automatics can stay in all the time. Not only do modern jet jockeys not know how to fly basically, they often do not know how to use the automatics to extricate themselves from a hole.

Please will someone put me right about VNAVPTH approaches on 777 if I'm off base with this one. I am a basic Mk.1 eyeball plot at heart, but I also know when & how to use the automatics when appropriate and necessary.
RAT 5 is offline