Amos2
Yes, they were both accidents, they have that in common.
QF - Night, windy, wet, landed.
Vs
OZ - Day, dry, calm, hit seawall about 30kts below Vref.
I was trying to think of a way of describing in motoring terms, to my family, the standard of negligence displayed in this accident.
How about driving along a straight bit of a steep 2000ft high mountain road while looking under the seat for that jelly bean you lost, assuming that the car should continue safely in a straight line because the steering wheel seems pretty straight when you last saw it.