Yep Cafe, I see your point. Sorry, you will just have to wear the "frustrated" label for the rest of your HK flying career. Can't see things changing a lot. It's a bit troubling to read commments like "Jungle's" which point to a lack of appreciation by some of the differences between the various ways in which the speed of an aeroplane (jet) through the air/over the ground can be measured, and the effect that these speeds have on aeroplane manoeuvreability (I never could spell that word). Goodnight