PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Senate Inquiry, Hearing Program 4th Nov 2011
Old 3rd Jun 2013, 03:44
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Sarcs
 
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Robo outstanding safety issues (Part I)??

Important note: Please don't read this post as a helicopter accident investigation, it's not. Read it as continuing on from the Senator X and Fawcett probes into the quality of service, grudgingly spared to similar accidents such as Canely Vale and the Air North Brasília. It also highlights the ineffectiveness of bureau highlighted ‘Safety Issues’in reports vs the direct effect of bureau issued ‘Safety Recommendations’ (may they RIP). The lack of a 'closed loop' system for ensuring preventable accidents are not repeated is easily determined from the long-term history of repetitive incidents/accidents, which have resulted in fatalities.

From Hansard 29/05/13:
Senator XENOPHON: But weren't there several earlier accidents involving post-crash fires with R44s before the manufacturer issued their service bulletin in 2003, 2006 and 2008?

Mr Dolan: There had been a number of post-crash fires associated with R44 helicopters. In the vast majority of those cases they represented high-energy impacts, which is to say accidents that were unlikely to have been survivable and which would have led to a post-crash fire in almost any helicopter.

Senator XENOPHON: So you are saying that the retrofitting would not have made any difference?

Mr Dolan: That would be our general assessment.

Senator XENOPHON: Take it on notice, because I have a few other matters to raise. You are saying that, from a causation point of view, even retrofitting the helicopters with that protective bladder, it still would have been a fatal accident?

Mr Dolan: On the facts that were available to us. We are not aware of any previous to Cessnock. I do not think we are aware of any of the low-energy collisions leading to that sort of thing. There were, as you say, a number of high-energy collisions that would have led to a ruptured fuel tank in any helicopter and therefore a great likelihood of a post-crash fire. Those are the sorts of accidents that generally are not survivable.

Senator XENOPHON: If you would not mind taking that on notice, even if it is just referring us to what you consider relevant, that would be very helpful.
Here are the links for the 2003, 2006, 2008 R44 accidents that involved post impact fires:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1533519/ao2008062.pdf

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1361537/aair200600979_001.pdf

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24556/aair200304546_001.pdf

With the possible exception of the 2003 accident there would appear to be general debate on whether these accidents could be classified as high-energy impact as Beaker generalises them to be.

Its kind of academic really and maybe it’s just another Beaker throw away line but what is the definition of a high-energy impact?

From the Bungles report on page 7 here is a couple of excerpts:
Damage to the engine firewall and skids showed that the helicopter impacted the
ground generally upright, in a right skid-low attitude and with high vertical
velocity.
Then there is this:
The absence of surface or vegetation disturbance in the vicinity of the wreckage indicated little or no forward speed at impact. Fire damage allowed the helicopter to subside onto its right side.
And there is also further mention on page 10 under (the very brief) ‘Medical and pathological information’The post-mortem examinations for all occupants of the helicopter described varying degrees of injuries consistent with the high vertical velocity impact. All sustained extensive thermal injury.”

There is also this interesting observation… “The pilot’s post-mortem report indicated that he was found ‘...a slight distance from the damaged aircraft’…. ”

So there was high vertical velocity but little or no fwd velocity, however there is also possible evidence (not conclusive I know) that the pilot (at least) survived the initial impact but may have received fatal injuries from the post impact fire!

Yet there is nowhere in that report, or indeed the 2006 and 2003 reports, that the post impact fire survivability issues were ever explored in the context of the ATSB investigations.

So Beaker’s generalised comment…. There were, as you say, a number of high-energy collisions that would have led to a ruptured fuel tank in any helicopter and therefore a great likelihood of a post-crash fire….” in my personal opinion definitely needs exploring and the Senators need applauding for exploring these still outstanding safety issue??

Kind of cold comfort for the victims families like the Cousin’s in the Bungle Bungle’s accident.
Well we had our inquest which was an absolute joke and embarrassment for the fact that so many documents were not produced / lost / created etc and no one did a thing about it. Our Coroner Ms Fricker left a lot to be desired and the fact that in the 2 years 7 months not one person in the court room excluding us had even visited the accident site or gone out to witness just what happens out there. We came away just blown away with the fact that so many things were dismissed/ allowed/undisclosed and were allowed to be.

That smell of money I think well and truly came into play!!!

I personally lost all respect for our government representatives, law, safety authorities after sitting in that court room for 5 days and listened to excuses on their behalf...instead of reasons to rectify and was horrified after the evidence given that it was declared and accident.

As I said in court this was an Accident waiting to happen and will occur again!! The coroner in her report even noted the number of helicopter accidents just since the inquest - approx 4 month....and not one recommendation was handed down. She used the words like Breached and Failed to comply in her report and yet not one recommendation.”
Carolyn Cousins. (mother of Jessica Cousins) Slingair Robinson 44 Bungle Bungles 14 September 2008 4 fatalities
Note: I have made thisRobo outstanding safety issues (Part I)” because there is more, much more ‘not satisfactorily addressed’ safety issues that have been brought to my attention in reviewing the R44 accidents…..

Hint: Look at the safety issues/actions sections of the three linked reports and also refer to Robo’s Safety Notices SN-10, SN-24 and SN-34; here is the ‘link’. Also refer to 'FAA SFAR 73-2'.

There is also this ATSB report for an 'R22 fatal crash' on the Gold Coast, which is also relevant.

To borrow from the ‘Kelpie’ (I see he is back: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program!’) …..more to follow!
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