The Dutch seem to have a waver of the OT&E commitment that they brought the 2 f-35 for
eaglemmoomin second paragraph sums up nicely what may happen
As to the Gripen E, if the package price is $150M ea when $150M is the Super Hornet package price ea and the F-35A is FMS package of $180M ea ..it is really false advertising using the word 'cheap' and Gripen in the same sentence
this guy has issues with the prices and such going around and his links are here
Canada and the F-35|F-35|Forum :: F-16.net
Economically seen it’s not possible, to my opinion, on the long term, building jets and hardly not get them sold
Saab never really succeeded to sell Gripens. 38 Gripens and that’s it. Besides leasing 28 Gripens (Swedish Airforce). Eventually, Saab opted to sell 500 and 400 Gripens
Will you will look at this (or anyone else)? Were I am wrong or what could may be right? Gr. m
Price per Gripen (as stated here)
Quote: The price per plane for Switzerland is solid and lands of 100 million Swiss francs, or 745 million Swedish kronor, for a Gripen E-plane, said Tagesschau.
Sweden, however, said to buy plane between 115 and 130 million Swiss francs (860-970 million) per plane. The number varies depending on the equipment Sweden decide to buy the plane.
According to Defense Minister Tagesschau Karin Enstrom has confirmed that Sweden is paying more per plane.
Price per jet:
Swiss:
CHF 100 = € 81.8 =$105.6
Sweden:
CHF 115 = € 94.07 = $ 121.44
CHF 130 = € 106.34 = $ 137.28
Development costs
Switzerland does not have to pay development costs
Quote: Entwicklungskosten verlangt haben. Offenbar geht es um 330 Millionen Franken, wodurch die Gesamtkosten der Gripen-Beschaffung auf 3,46 Milliarden steigen würden.
Gemäss den Gripen-Kritikern besteht die Gefahr, dass Kosten einfach vom Entwicklungs- in den Upgradetopf umgelagert werden – und diese späteren Aufrüstungen wird die Schweiz bezahlen müssen. Deshalb ist es entscheidend, welche Ausstattung und welche technische Leistung für den Jet vereinbart werden, den die Schweiz kauft
Google translator
Quote: Have called for development costs. Apparently there's about 330 million francs, bringing the total cost of the Gripen procurement would rise to 3.46 billion.
According to critics, the Gripen is a risk that the costs are simply rearranged development in the pot upgrade - and this will have to pay for upgrades later to Switzerland. Therefore, it is important to decide what features and what kind of technical performance for the jet are agreed that Switzerland buys
Excluding development cost: Package deal
o CHF 3,126 million > €2,557.06 million = $3,301.16 million
o Per Gripen E: 116.23 = $150.05 million
Including development costs: Package deal
o CHF 330 million > € 269. million = $348.49 million
o CHF 3,460 million >€ 2,830.27 million = $ 3,653.87 million
o Per Gripen E: €128.64 = $166.08 million
Twoseater: Gripen F
One newly disclosed development is that Sweden and Switzerland plan to operate only the single-seat JAS 39E. “It’s a cost question,” Nystrom explained. “If we were to go with a two-seater, we’d like to have an enhanced back seat, and we don’t have the money for that.” Weapon system operator training would also consume more resources.
Swiss: lease 11 Gripen C/D
Lease: 11 Gripen C/D’s (8 Gripen C / 3 Gripen D)
CHF 44 million per year > € 35.99 million = $ 46.47 million
Till 2021, at least 5 years > CHF 220 million = € 179.96 million = $ 232.33 million
22 Gripen E: CHF 3,126 billion
Lease: CH 220 million
Total: CHF 3,346 billion > € 2.737.01 = $3,533.49
Total per Gripen E: CHF 152.09 million = € 124.41 million = $160.61 million
Quote: The F-5Es have to be retired soon, so Switzerland will lease 11 JAS 39C/D Gripens in 2016-17 as a bridge to the new version. The first of 22 JAS 39Es will arrive in mid-2018. Eleven aircraft are to be handed over by the end of 2019 with the remainder arriving in 2020-21.
The JAS 39Cs will be returned to Sweden one-for-one as the JAS 39Es are delivered, but the JAS 39Ds (three of them) may be retained longer. There is no current plan to replace the country’s Boeing F/A-18C/D Hornets: “We will operate those aircraft as long as possible, and as long as Boeing supports them,” Antognini says.
Flying costs
A. Swiss flying cost Gripen E (based on 180 hours, Swiss)
22 Gripen E: operating cost per year, next 30 years
Per year: CHF 100 million = € 81.8 million = $ 105.6 million
Per Gripen E: CHF 4.54 million = €3.71 million = $ 4.79 million
180 hours: CHF 25,222.22 = € 20,631.67 =
$26,635.49 per flying hour
Source: Lt Gen. Markus Gygax, commander Swiss Airforce
Article: Getting the Gripen, Airforces Montly, jan. 2012
B. Swiss flying cost Gripen E (based on 180 hours, Swiss)
Per year: CHF102 = € 83.44 = $ 107.72 (22 Gripens)
Gripen E: CHF 4,63 million > per flying hour: CHF 25,722.22 = €21,040.67 =
$27,163.51
Quote: Estimated in the draft are the operating costs: 102 million francs per year (6 million Swiss francs for the operation of real estate included). The operating cost per hour in the template are not explicitly mentioned. This amount, taking into account the specified annual costs for personnel (24 million), maintenance (51 million) and fuel (21 million), more so than in previous presentations Saab journalists presented. The calculation of operating costs per hour sets the Switzerland based on a flight operating time of 180 hours per year. At 22 Gripen, this gives cost of 24'242 francs per flight hour. Saab announced during a presentation in Sweden at a price of less than 10,000 francs. (Basler Zeitung) Here is still a need for clarification. (Basler Zeitung)
Either Saab claims less than CHF10,000 per flying hour
€8,179.96 = $10,560.33 per flying hour
May be this concerns a specific Swedisch situation? For instance Swedisch pilots does not make comparable flying hours as the Swiss (180 hours). As well as the Dutch and Belgium (180 hours)
Interesting, Dutch National Audit Office; when less F35’s will be bought flying hours will raise from 180 hours to 240 flying hours per F35 per year
Preparing For War
NATO demand 160-180 flying hours per pilot per year. If the entire Swedish Air Force would be at this high alert it would stress the economy a lot. A squadron also need time to train new pilots and to replace the old guys retiring or leaving for HQ duty or schools. Therefore there will never be a time when all pilots in the Air Force are in combat status.
There are very few Swedish pilots with a 1000 flying hours
Flying hours Gripen
(may be I am be totally wrong calculating, tried to make some kind of calculation having some idea)
Swedisch Airforce
Total Gripen flying hours (after first delivery):
2000: 12,000 flying hours
2004: 45,000 flying hours (142 Gripens)
2000-2004 > 33,000 flying hours > Per Gripen: 4 years: 232 flying hours > 58 flying hours per year
2005: 60,000 flying hours (159 Gripens)
2004-2005 > 15,000 flying hours > Per Gripen: 94,3 flying hours per year
2007: 96,320 flying hours (193 Gripens)
2005-2007 > 33,320 flying hours > Per Gripen 2 years: 172.6 fling hours > 86.3 flying hours per year
2000-2007 > 84,320 flying hours > Per Gripen 7 years: 436.8 flying hours > 62,4 flying hours per year (193 Gripens)
2008 > 100,000 flying hours
1. The Swiss don’t pay developmentcosts
2. All costs will be paid by the Swedish government, when development of the Gripen E will be more expensive
3. A Gripen F will not be developed. Gripen D’s have to be ordered as well, or training in Sweden?
4. Not included reconnaissance pods, as well as targeting pods (The Swiss want to introduce this capability)
5. Updating will be extremely expensive, when not that much Gripen E’s will be ordered
6. The Gripen E does not exist yet and will have to be developed
According the Swiss chief flight engineer; 70% of the Gripen E exists on paper.
7. Conclusion: after delivery of the first Gripen E’s these jets still will have to be tested for some years. It will take a long time before the Gripen E will be really operational
8. There will be no Gripen F (two seater)
9. The Gripen E will be more expensive, there are no examples of such projects without cost overruns. Either the Swedish government guaranties and will pay cost overruns concerning Swiss Gripens
10. Considering as well, to build a Gripen E a Gripen C will be needed
11. The real cost of a Swedish Gripen E can be seen as the cost of a Gripen C included (as well as development cost included)
12. The Swiss still can decide not to order the Gripen E (When the Swiss population votes against ordering the Gripen)
13. In that case, when no partner will be found, Sweden does not order the Gripen E as well
Source:
Gripen THE GRIPEN IS LIKE A KNIFE THAT CUTS BAD
The chief engineer of the Swiss Air Force criticized the Swedish fighter jet
Quote: The list of whistleblowers, however, shows the opposite. The wings, for example, exist only in the computer. The radar is true in parts of the prototype and many components are still in development. Because of this new radar in the aircraft tip future weighs 200 pounds more, the Saab Gripen must extend back to 37 centimeters, so it does not tilt forward. This explains Björn Danielsson, an ex-fighter pilot of the Air Force and consultant of Gripen manufacturer Saab.
Rates: march 21, 2013