Point 1
freight.dog I to am an effected Domestic FO (probably junior to yourself in all likelihood!). Its time to face up to a few realities.
The time for winner (Domestic FO) takes all has been and gone with the last vote. Many of our FO colleagues voted 'NO' falling for the promise of a 'tightening' of the integration clause under a 'mandate'. It got tightened alright and it moved toward the CFO position! Is this the end of the world? NO. How many people are we talking here? 35 worst case scenario. Can they jump you for your first command? NO.
The company has made it very clear that its had a guts full of the whole integration show and I can see why. They have stated through the unions that if this fails we are headed for silos. Silos means 3-5% growth per annum if you are lucky. Don't forget, Tiger 320s are in the wings and we will start waving goodbye to Coffs, Ballina, Sunshine Coast and many others very shortly. Ejets are getting older and ATRs are getting newer (you got the picture - its not pretty). We will have to wait decades and decades for a left seat move if silos are the result.
Under the current Integration proposal, as opposed to the last one, we loose
some seniority to CFOs sure. But what do we gain? Have a read of this article:
Virgin Australia
We gain the ability to perhaps fly one of these as an FO while we wait and more importantly our Senior Captains can fly them as Captains. For us that means
movement. Something we won't have under a silo given slowed domestic growth and other companies (Tiger/Skywest) accelerated growth. Would you like to see our Senior guys not move while outsiders take DE 350 commands? Whilst I like those senior dudes I think I'd like them even more if they moved onto another growing fleet leaving space for me one day!
Another option that we
risk is pure Date of Joining. If this happens my friend you might as well leave Australia as you will never see the left seat in your lifetime. In actual fact this was the original AFAP and VIPA proposal 2 years ago believe it or not. Only through phone calls, emails and long chats did we get it to come back into our favour. Now I'm not saying I'm happy about losing seniority to CFOs but I know I'd prefer the current model to a silo or a pure DOJ.
Let me also point out that as technology evolves and these big machines become more efficient suddenly routes that were once unprofitable become profitable. An A350 might make money where the 777 doesn't. All you need is 5 more on top of the current 5 and hey presto we've just moved 35 spots up the list. What I'm saying is that you need to take an ultra long term view of things. 35 spots is one indusction course difference, hardly worth canning 30 years of Long Haul opportunities is it?
Finally sometimes in Integration like in everything you can't have it all your own way. You've got to have a compromise. We got Command protection and Pac Blue put to the bottom of the list. Its hardly the worst outcome is it?
Point 2:
Industially charged 'NO' voters, I agree with many of your points but everything has a time and a place.
The CEO is
not going to give us Business class so can we just stop wasting time going over the same diatribe over and over. That is not to say that one day when the CEO has moved on that we might be able to bargain with someone that doesn't feel so passionately about it. Why is he so passionate about it? Well I guess he is trying to get as many Business class passengers as possible from Qantas. What does that mean for you and I? Nothing immeadiately but in the long term. 1. Job Security 2. More money to buy more planes and more equipment with 3. More ground to bargain with at the next EBA (12 months away from begining negotitations).
Trying to bargain with the CEO whose entire strategy is Business class after not exactly stellar profit announcements is a complete and utter waste of our time and resources. Lets fight the wars you and I can win hey! Qantas are blessed with ALL staff (Cabin Crew etc) riding in Business next to the CEO of CSL or BHP. Can you imagine some of the conversations and carry on they overhear and see? Great for us not great for them. Lets pick the Business class war another time lads.
Skywest get Business class on the ATR and F50
if they travel overseas. The F100 sim is in Australia and the pilots travels domestically and therefore economy is the go. The overseas business class war is to be fought by our 777 pilots not us as it is they that have to sit week in week out in economy to Malaysia. The F50 will be retired and with 18 frames the ATR Sim will magically appear on Australian soil.
Skywest 320 pilots receive very little if no allowances (all day trips), no drafts and go to one or two places only at this point. Their fleet has an enormous question mark over it as they don't have a great need for the machine and JB isn't into having people sit around! Tiger have 320s interestingly enough. Maybe Skywest will be the LCC (as suggested ina nother thread). Hows that clause look in the EBA?
The Skywest EBA has mixed rosters with reserves mixed with flying and 8 days off total. I get double their days off most months and if I want can make more than their Captains with drafts and allowances. The majority of their work are day trips to mine sites, they have no bidding system apart from simple days off requests I believe. I overnight on the Gold Coast and Bali when it suits me. They overnight at Arglye, cool. I guess thats why no Virgin pilots are applying to Skywest!
The CEO put it in writing that we would not receive backpay. What more warning do you want? Skywriting perhaps? I suggest you contact your union regarding this matter.
Executive bonuses in Australia ARE a problem and given the profit results I think might need scrutiny. I'd suggest the forum for this is not an EBA vote. Shareholder meetings or ASIC are far more appropriate.
'737 pilots are getting 3%'. A330 pilots are grossly under paid and if you think it should stay that way you need shock therapy. Pushing them as high as possible gives us room to move later down the track. Should they (330) make more than 777? What planet are you on? NO.
'Embraer pilots are getting a bigger payrise'. Yep spacing them the same as 330 guys from us. Less whinging in the crew room and
less likelihood of the skippers moving to the 73 or more likelihood of me moving to it as 175k aint the worst command wage I've seen on a seats to dollars ratio. Just ask the Jetstar 320 guys. Actually don't bother they'll tell you they are pulling 250k regularly/easily with overtime (my eyes roll, yet another pilot inferiority complex).
'But the 73 makes all the money we should get more' (i think the atrs making a bit to just quietly!). Do you have any mates at QF on the 73 or 320 JQ guys that will tell you the truth? We ain't doing too bad guys.
'Commuters get no help' agree if anything they get some sort of weird/anti treatement from certain people in the company. Those people need couselling and need to get over it. Pilots commute as they always have, they aren't a contagious disease. Commuters get no EBA help thanks to Colgan and CASA as I understand it. Its no reason to give them a hard time however. I love the Captains that try to make a point of shooting them down: get a life seriously, they're our collegues.
Will Tiger pilots get the same conditions etc? No but they will get all the growth and a job all unlikely if the deal doesn't go ahead!
Industrial Action? Qantas pilots wore ties and got Told off by FWA! What exactly do you think will happen to us? Dreaming. Maybe we should just wait for the change of Government. I'm sure they're going to be sympathetic to union demands. Hang on we're all Liberal voters aren't we...? Individual contracts sound cool- Not!
'They are corrupt and bullies'. Ok well take that up with the Integrity department or a Commonwealth body whats that got to do with the EBA sorry? Strange.
Finally pick your time pick your place. $23mil profit aint the time or place. When its in the hundreds of millions sure. 1982 is gone, time to face a new reality. The boom is gone, people are being retrenched. bereal_getreal.
Cheers. Bye.