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Old 6th Mar 2013, 22:51
  #879 (permalink)  
PJ2
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BC
Age: 76
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Lonewolf_50;
1. Once the conversion course is over, who is flying, and how often? Considering recency and frequency of training and prifociency in flying: who is flying and how, when they are flying and particularly when they are hand flying?

2. (regarding AF 447 and a few other UAS events, without airspeed indications, you don't have a critical performance instrument, but you do have available in this case both pitch and power information, and you have both altimeter and VSI to get a sense of "level" or '1 G' flight, or something other than that).

3. Last of all, if like most pilots you are initially taught the above forumula, and imbed that relationship first, how many reps of a different conceptual approach do you need in order to fly "G" or "flight path" rather than pitch using your hands and feet, and internalize that? Varies with each pilot, I suspect.

4. I'd be interested to hear from those who do pilot training and conversion comment on the above. When pilots actually fly the Magic Bus, are the pilots flying pitch and power?
I think these are good questions / discussions on important & relevant matters which still have lessons to teach even as AF447 has been thoroughly dissected, (same thread, for context - slight shift in focus, etc). This is about airmanship, aerodynamics, systems knowledge and, most importantly, effort, a.k.a. "keeness", in terms of what one puts into learning one's craft and profession. So this applies currently and widely.

I've numbered your paragraphs for easy reference. The following is one pilot's experience / interpretation and therefore isn't definitive. I know you know this!

1. (Note: Conversion or Transition course footprints for new types, say A320 to A330, B737 to B767 or A320 to B777 etc, are usually 56 days give or take. Line Indoctrination flying, (regular routes with passengers with a line-indoc captain in either seat depending upon if the candidate is F/O or Captain) is usually included in this footprint but factors can extend this time although it's rarely less.

With that in mind, once the transition course is completed pilots flying long-haul overseas routes in western-built B777/B747/B767/B757/A340/A330/MD11, whether new on the airplane or have been on a long time, are generally working three trips per month, sometimes with a domestic filler. Long haul monthly hour limits vary between 80 and 95hrs with slight variations either way. That usually isn't hard (stick) time as there are 'flight-time guarantees' sometimes built into the schedule. Actual, logged stick time for most of these pilots (domestic & international) is usually about 600 - 1000hrs per year depending upon the nature of the operation.

The takeoff and the late approach / landing phases are almost always hand-flown. These two phases are the only portions of the flight which are hand-flown. It is illegal to hand-fly in RVSM airspace, complicated SIDS and STARS require precise navigation and altitude/speed control and generally the crew is tired at the end and the engagement of the autoflight system is of great value. So the hand-flying portion of most all flights lasts between 8 and 15 minutes, obviously with outliers where pilots choose (and are permitted) to hand-fly the entire departure and climb to cruise altitude, and the descent, approach and landing at destination.

The breakdown is roughly three minutes for the takeoff and initial departure. Takeoff lasts less than 1 minute, initial climb and establishing enroute about six to eight minutes but the autoflight is almost always engaged right after takeoff, mainly for reasons of navigation/speed/altitude precision and crew workload. There is nothing preventing hand-flying of the departure but everyone needs to be right on top of things to do so. The workload is higher but for a good crew that is not a problem.

The descent and approach phases are almost always flown on autoflight with disconnection around 400ft above airport elevation. Autolands are rarely carried out except when required. Autoland works extremely well. Hand-flying the late approach, (FL100 or below) is rare but is usually permissable and a lot of fun as well as very good practice but the same constraints apply so if one disconnects it's later in the approach phase...8 minutes is a reasonable estimate.

This phase (FL100 / arrival), usually lasts about 12 to 17 minutes depending upon the terminal.

From the FAF / OM, (Final approach fix or Outer Marker, (for others, about 4nm to the runway)) to touchdown is usually just over 2 minutes. From 400ft to t/d is about 40 to 50 seconds.

Based on these numbers, long-haul pilots are getting about 3 minutes of hand-flying on takeoff and about 50" of hand-flying on approach. If crews fly three long-haul trips and one domestic that's usually eight legs, perhaps ten and at the most a dozen legs per month. The flying is usually shared between Captain and F/O. At some carriers the third or fourth crew members are regular F/Os or Captains while other carriers use what are known as "Relief Pilots - RPs" who occupy the front seats only in cruise and are not permitted to sit up front below cruise altitudes. This has more to do with cost than anything else but the point is, the tiny time available for hand-flying is shared between at least two pilots, possibly three.

Per trip the available hand-flying time for the crew is approximately:

Takeoff and initial departure: Max 6 minutes, min 3 minutes;
Approach and landing: Max 8 minutes, min 1 minute

Per month the time is about Max 56 minutes, minimum 16 minutes.

For 11 months approximately, (can be less, depending...), the available hand-flying time is about 10hrs 15minutes max or about 3hrs minimum.

For the discussion let us say it is shared between just the two pilots up front.

Divided between the two pilots, hand-flying time for a long-haul pilot is just over 5hrs per year max and about an hour and a half minimum. The rest is flown on autoflight.

2. My sense of "level flight" was as you have said, the IVSI and Altimeter, but definitely not 'g'. Any "g" felt always signals a transition and one always waited for stability while watching/reading the instruments, almost always for verification of expectations and not to see what the airplane was doing.

3. I don't think that for a pilot the pitch / power and performance equation governs how one flies. I think it just has to be experienced and then the intuition comes quickly in ab initio work as well as transition work. I think this kind of knowledge explains afterwards what happens when one flies and so I wouldn't know how to teach it. I think one can only teach (or cause to learn) what it looks like but one can't teach what it feels like. I think that that kind of aeronautical knowledge-building goes right back to ab-initio work when one begins to learn how to fly. Those are the connections being made when one is being taught attitudes, slow flight, stalls and forced landings, (the glide). It is very difficult to teach that stuff (pitch & power) on transport airplanes first because the same power settings can result in different speeds, (Davies) but mainly because the changes are too tiny and the outcomes too large to appreciate the real connection. That's what's meant for example, by "tiny changes in pitch result in massive climb or descent rates". You don't see that in a little airplane, you just see the speed drop off if you pitch up and don't add power or the nose drop if you reduce power and it becomes (or should!) an "aha" moment. It works the same in heavy transports but at much different scales and effects which make it very difficult to demonstrate, (and one shouldn't be demonstrating such work at that stage anyway!).

4. My experience from the DC9 through to the A340/A330 was to fly pitch and power, and both thrust levels and trim complemented this intuitive learning, aided by some very patient captains and as well as by some who weren't patient at all. The A320/A330 were flown exactly the same way but the feedback loops were different but the sound of the air going by the airplane, pitch attitude vs power setting and one's feeling in the seat were the same. Clandestino has commented that the transition back to manually-operated trim (from the AB autotrim) was a non-event and I would agree that it would be easy to pick up say on a B777 or B767, (it might be more challenging if one had never flown non-AB aircraft).

The problems to overcome while transitioning to an Airbus are twofold: The fear of disconnecting, and the fear that it will do something you don't want. Both fears are fought by disconnecting everything regularly and hand-flying where one's company's policy permits. It takes work, study and patience to learn the airplane and it's not as straightforward as the B767 or B777. One does not put the books on a shelf, sit back and wait for someone else to teach them every six months in the sim (or in the office). But I am increasingly hearing of such things as well as hearing that not many pilots disconnect anymore. I think that's a problem.

On learning, on pitch/power and bringing keenness and enthusiasm to the profession for life-long learning, others will hopefully have different views to contribute.

PJ2
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