Originally Posted by orca
Which would all be fine if it weren't for the way the USMC actually use the amphibs. If one were to ask a USMC Harrier driver how they felt on the deck and how they fared in the priority stakes etc you would probably find repeated tales of woe - not being able to get off the deck due helo ops and a myriad of other RW centric stories.
But it's their train set and if that's the way they want to play with it I wish them all the best. They are pretty formidable as a stand alone entity.
True, but on occasions they have operated as AV-8B carriers with an increased number of jets. Playing second fiddle to rotary wing operations is probably a cultural thing. The USMC used to like embarking aboard RN decks to get experience of having the deck mostly to themselves, but despite the UK having a STOVL future to prepare for this no longer happens for some reason - although it would benefit both parties.
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
No, it doesn't, since the Amphibs are not deployed with organic AEW, nor is the actual Air Wing component remotely as capable.
In Re AEW: Hawkeye is not a VSTOL aircraft.
Now, if you want to "put a big ship somewhere" and you don't think any actual incoming air assets are likely to show up, sure, send LHA/LHD and a few escorts depending upon how you want the presence mission to play out. Been on a few of those.
But DON'T EVER PRETEND than a Harrier carrying amphib in the USN is a sub for a CVN plus its embarked airwing.
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Quite agree. However,
if CVNs become less available, then jets embarked aboard the LHA/LHD may be the only shipborne jets available. F-35B will be a lot more capable than Harrier, with significant ISTAR capabilities of its own. My argument is NOT that a LHA/LHD is as good or as capable as a CVN and air wing, but that since your politicians seem intent on reducing the number of deployed/ready CVNs (a dangerous move in my opinion) then you need to look at other ways of operating fixed wing aircraft at sea or from the sea.
Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
Nope. The Essexes either embarked a full CAG (albeit without A6 and F4, chocka with A1, A4 and F8) and did strike ops - and plenty worked Yankee station during Vietnam, or they designated them CVS, filled the deck with S2 Trackers, a few E1 Tracers and used them to provide the ASW cover for carrier groups in 2nd, 6th and 7th Fleet AORs. They never sent them as a substitute for the post Forrestal ships in any meaningful way.
Indeed, but whilst the numbers of big deck carriers were being built up, they did sterling work.
Interesting article here:
Navy's Newest Assault Ship Moonlights as Pint-Sized Aircraft Carrier | Danger Room | Wired.com
It’s not a totally reckless wager, but it does involve some risk. With the America class, the Pentagon is taking a chance on air power and, more to point, on the Marines’ version of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. When America‘s sister ship Tripoli enters service in 2018, the Navy will (in essence) possess 13 carriers — these two smaller, newer models, plus 11 of the big, nuclear-powered variety. That’s up from the 11 nuke flattops in today’s fleet. Commensurately, the number of old-school assault ships will drop by two.
The sailing branch’s other assault ships — currently numbering nine — can also support dozens of helicopters plus a handful of Harrier jump jets apiece. But they lack the facilities for sustained flight ops, meaning they’re more assault ships than classic carriers. The older vessels are built around cavernous “well decks” — in essence, giant swimming pools that open to the sea through the ships’ sterns, allowing them to launch and recover landing craft, hovercraft, swimming vehicles and river boats. These small craft are the primary means of moving Marines onto shore, complemented by helicopters and V-22 tiltrotors taking off from the flight deck.
America and Tripoli don’t have well decks. In their place, the newer ships possess extra hangar space, bigger tanks for aviation fuel and larger weapons magazines. These facilities allow America and her sister to operate, for days on end, as many as 30 fixed-wing planes including today’s Harriers plus the F-35B stealth jump jet that’s still in testing. “It is, for all intents and purposes, a light aircraft carrier,” Navy Capt. Jerry Hendrix wrote of America. But the new ship and her sister can still send Marines ashore in helicopters and V-22s.
Needs must.