To keep things tidy, here is where the conversation went from the Cadet Pilot Program Thread:
From Mediums:
Jetpilot213, From what I can tell by your post, your office job gave you a housing allowance that far outweighed the one Cathay Pacific is offering you currently. Also all the problems you mentioned about Hong Kong were not there before and somehow CX has managed to bring all those into your life as well. Learn to adapt and learn to manage your money better.
I will say that the pollution in the city areas is much worse but nothing too serious that you end up dead in 10 years. There is a magical place called Sham Shui Po to cater to all your hardware needs for super cheap.
I'll make it very simple, HK can be the most expensive city if you make it out to be that way. If you expect to eat out at fancy restaurants daily then you have noone but yourself to blame... You can learn to fly a fancy jet but can't learn to cook. If I make the cut I'd accept right away. The whole world's economy is going to **** and noone is going to pay to train you and then hire you afterwards. There are people in HK living on HKD 5000 a month or less.
Mediums,
I'm a bit surprised by your comments. It doesn't seem like you realize that I have a family to provide for, or that you may have one to provide for in the future, too. Not even cabin crew live off $5000 hkd per month, and they get a free place to stay in the Gold Coast. That is below the poverty level. The job of a Cathay pilot is not a job you trust to someone who can only sweep the street. It's a professional job. It is a job for those who are able to handle the decision making and responsibilities that come with the job. And, the pay should be commensurate with the responsibility. Also, it should be commensurate with the money you are making for the company. The company effectively cut new joiner's pay in half compared to just a few years ago, but I can guarantee that someone in the higher echelons got a fat bonus for doing so. Is that the system you are so desperate to join?
I handle my finances quite well. The only debts I have are my home, and all payments are made on time. We usually cook at home, and the last time I went to a fancy restaurant was when I took my wife out for Valentine's day. When I say the food is expensive, I'm talking about going out and buying good, clean quality produce and cooking at home. I didn't even mention eating out. I'm not an excessive spender. My take-home between Cathay and my previous job are very similar. Yet, the lifestyle in Hong Kong does not compare with the lifestyle back home.
Sure, the smog and particulate in the air and the water won't kill me in 10 years, but neither will smoking 5 packs of cigarettes per day. But, it could put me in a wheel chair sooner, with lung disease. What about the more subtle effects of those chemicals on brain function? How about the long term effects on your muscles? How about on the development of my children? And, since I like to stay fit, it's a concern because going for a run means I'm breathing in that stuff at a more rapid rate. When we descent from FL390, into Hong Kong there is a point when you can SMELL the Hong Kong air coming in the cockpit. Let me just say it is not a refreshing smell. When I get off the plane in places like Adelaide, that air smells clean and fresh. There is a very very very significant difference. But, if you've lived in Hong Kong your whole life, you don't realize this because Hong Kong is all you know.
Sham Shui Po is not equivalent to a Bunnings or Home Depot. You can waste a lot of time wandering from shop to shop, looking for goods that just don't have the same level of quality. And, the people lack expertise. Sure, you can find super cheap stuff, but if I wanted to live a "super cheap" life, why come to Hong Kong? I could get a low paying job in my own country, and live a much better life. Why would anyone leave their home country and family for a worse opportunity? Let me say, I thought this was going to be a good opportunity, but with the experience I have gained, I can say that it is not. Even I can't argue with my own experience.
Let me say this, if you're from Hong Kong, they KNOW that you'll take the job, because you're desperate for anything. They know you would live at home with mom and dad who would still pay your bills and make your dinner. They will take advantage of this as much as they can. A bit racist, don't you think?
Mediums, that post was directed at westerners not locals, westerners are accustomed to a different life growing up and the CX package no longer provides for it, it's that simple.
I thought it was an excellent post personally but doubt it'll sway the shiny jet syndrome of cadets.
From Tea-Towel:
Quote:
Let me say this, if you're from Hong Kong, they KNOW that you'll take the job, because you're desperate for anything. They will take advantage of this as much as they can. A bit racist, don't you think?
I'm quiet confused by this statement. Are you saying its racist that they pay foreigners the same as locals?
And that it wouldn't be if they paid you more based on your race?
If Hong Kongers came to wherever you're from, and received an "Ex-pat package" would you be content?
I can sympathise with the rest of your concerns however and agree with them.
Tea-Towel,
That comment was more so directed to Mediums because he eluded to the idea that he would take the job no matter what they offered him. Which, unfortunately if there are enough people like that will cause market pressure that further lowers the compensation package for new joiners. But, I think the comment I made about being racist is not quite accurate... let me try to clarify.
To be clear,
I don't think it's fair that the company pays two groups of people differently when they are doing the same job. On the contrary. What I am saying is that they will take advantage of locals and pay them less than foreigners and get away with it because locals are willing to take lower pay, and I don't think that's right. Not many foreigners will come to Hong Kong for those terms, especially once they really find out how the lifestyle compares to their home countries. I don't think it's fair that locals should get paid less than foreigners.
Let's look at the state of things prior to the new iCadet scheme:
A "local" Ab-initio cadet joins without any housing allowance, and also does not receive other significant benefits, other than "training costs."
An "expat" joins and gets full housing and other benefits.
In the long term, it's not fair because the "local" will cost the company much less.
What happened next was an argument along the lines of:
Local: "Hey, this isn't fair, they're getting paid more than us!"
Company Management: "Ok, we'll fix that..."
In comes the iCadet Scheme...
Company Management to Finance Department: "Lower the expat pay and benefits until it matches the locally employed package."
Company Management: "Are you happy now?"
Local: "Yeah, much better." (Ok, I'm using some satire here.)
Is that really what the local HK people had in mind??? Who would agree to that? Wouldn't it be better if the pay was increased to match the pay of the expat pilots?
The issue is there are market drivers that cause Hong Kong people to accept lower pay across the board - in the Banking industry, the Real Estate industry, and the Aviation industry. So, even if the company can afford to pay higher wages, why would they if they have people begging to work for them on the cheap? Maybe racist is not quite the right term for what I'm talking about... What I'm trying to describe is how employers exploit employees on a cultural and socioeconomic basis. In Hong Kong they have a "captive audience" begging for jobs. But, they can't find enough locals who have the right stuff, so they need to recruit elsewhere, too. But, those who come from elsewhere have the kind of experience I've had once landing in Hong Kong - it's NOT an easy place to live. And a good standard of living is expensive here. What the locals should be saying is "DAMN RIGHT, and WE want better compensation TOO!" I think that many locals may be scared to lose what little they have instead of realizing they have only to gain by pushing back against unacceptable terms. The company likes a divided pilot cadre because special interest groups will just feud against each other and never make any real headway, all the while the company is reaping the profits of cheap labour. If everyone is singing the same tune, and actually ACTS on it, real change will happen. My suggestion?
ALL who have been given an offer to join Cathay should contact the HKAOA to negotiate their Conditions of Service and compensation, BEFORE they sign any contract with the company. There would be a significant change in how things are done if that happened. And, Mediums, as long as you survive the gauntlet of interviews, tests, and flight grading that make up the selection process, I would fully welcome you to the big leagues, where you get big league pay, not $5000hkd per month.