Guys, I originally posted this under the Cathay Cadet Pilot Program thread, but I think it deserves a separate thread because it is key to understanding what kind of lifestyle you are considering. Originally it was mainly directed towards Westerners because it is a very different lifestyle to what they are used to in their own countries, and I can provide a current Western S/O perspective. Hong Kongers already know what life is like in Hong Kong, and it's a very different experience for them than Westerners because of things like language, cultural differences, having family here, being the only life they know, etc. What they don't know is how good it is elsewhere, such as Australia. But, in the interest in including all who are interested in the job, I added some philosophical thoughts for the local guys at the end of the post.
I don't normally spend time writing on forums, but I figure that this info might come in handy to someone out there looking for real answers. Now that I've lived in Hong Kong, and worked for Cathay for over a year, I can tell you how it really is. There's a lot of info here, so feel free to read in depth. I'm not bull!!!!ting you, this is my experience:
I am a professional, and had a profession prior to Cathay. I have another career path to compare with. I had an office job, working 40-hour weeks in a technology related position.
By taking a job with Cathay, and moving to Hong Kong my lifestyle is worse than it was in my previous career. Why did I take the job in the first place? I had set a life goal of becoming a professional pilot, and I thought that I was joining the best company out there. I based a lot of my decision on the Cathay name. I had the impression that they are the kind of company you join, and never think about getting another flying job. I had talked to other Cathay pilots, and they had generally good perspectives, but the Cadet Pilot Program was new, and they didn't know about the changes in the compensation package. They were all on expat pay packages, so their housing was a big chunk of money, and the cost of living was significantly lower. When they joined, they could afford a "decent" home by Hong Kong standards straightaway. I thought that the pay would be good, because compared to my home country it is good for a low-time pilot, but looking ahead to FO and beyond, I see that what seemed to be a gain in the short term turns out to be a very big loss in the long term.
If I had the chance to go back and join Cathay again, I would not. I would stay in my previous career, or find a different avenue for being a pilot in my home country.
Read on if you want to know why.
I'll start with the big gorilla -
HOUSING. Hong Kong is literally one of the most expensive cities in the world for housing costs. Why? There's a limited supply, and the Mainland Chinese use it as an investment opportunity, driving prices sky-high. There is a lot of greed in this city. This also increases the risk of a housing bubble, which means that if you are fortunate enough to actually buy something here, you might end up losing all your money when prices go down. Ok, so what are current prices like? Let me give you Tung Chung as an example. TC is close to the Airport, very convenient for work, and is also less expensive than other parts of Hong Kong, because it's a long way from the action of places like Central, TST, Lan Kwai Fong, etc. It's also cheaper because it's a long commute to work for locals who work in Central or Kowloon.
Walk through this with me... To get a rough estimate of prices here, just go to the HSBC valuation tool website:
Property Valuation Tool - HSBC in Hong Kong Let's look up a practical example for a new SO, just moving to Hong Kong and wanting to get their first place, a 575 usable sqft place in Caribbean Coast, Tung Chung:
Look up the following: Zone: New Territories/Island; District: Lantau/Outlying Islands; Estate Name: Caribbean Coast; Block/Building: Phase 3, Tower 10; Floor: 35; Flat/Unit: C
Result: 4.86 Million HKD, or about $613,000AUD or $627,000USD. These places don't even have closet spaces or wardrobes. That will be extra, thank you. Total cash on hand needed to purchase? Let’s do the math:
The Down Payment requirement is currently 10%. There are two Stamp Duties (Tax): Normal, calculated here:
Stamp Duty Computation (Landed Properties) - Property Transfer and an additional stamp duty of 15% for non-permanent residents like you and me. That new stamp duty came out in Oct 2012. There are also miscellaneous costs, such as solicitors fees, and agent fees. We’ll estimate those at about another $40,000HKD.
So we get: $486,000+$145,800+$729,000+$40,000=$1,400,800HKD (i.e. $181,000USD CASH)
You're out of the market, and it's going up faster than your income, so you'll never get in. As a result, you'll end up always paying rent, and end up with little in the way of assets when it comes time for retirement. I don't think you want to come to Hong Kong for that. That's where a lot of our guys are sitting right now. It takes 7 years to become a permanent resident in Hong Kong. In 7 years, the prices of flats could easily double or even triple, so by the time you can get the 15% stamp duty waived, it's too late anyway. Mind you, this is for 575 square feet of cement walls and tile floors. Nothing in the way of comfort. If you want a "livable" place of, say 1000 sqft, look up an A or H unit in Caribbean Coast, those are proper 1000 sqft places. That will cost you close to $8.5million HKD, the down payment will be more like 30%, Stamp duties will be higher, and… you get the picture. When pilots who have expat benefits joined, many were able to purchase a place to live not long after arriving because of assistance from Cathay. There were loan programs that would help them finance up to 100%, so they didn’t even need to try to save up while squandering money on rent. The situation now is a terrible, terrible mess.
Ok, so say you actually DO have the cash to buy a place in Hong Kong, let's take a look at some other aspects of life here:
POOR QUALITY GOODS Goods are expensive compared to the same product in a western country (read Australia, New Zealand, USA). You buy a mop, it breaks. You buy an air conditioning unit, it falls apart after a couple years. You buy ANYTHING, and you'll find that the quality is just not the same. And, you will pay a premium if it's not common in Hong Kong. Oh, did I mention that if you want to buy something unique, you will struggle with the local shop keeper just trying to communicate what it is that you want? I decided I want to do some remodeling--a little painting, and put up some shelves. So, let's go get a roller and paint... Paint was easy to find. But, decent painting tools? Not as easy. I ended up buying them in Oz at Bunnings, and bringing it all back in a suitcase. It's cool that I can do that, but you can't carry 2X4s in a suitcase... You just can't beat jumping in the car or truck, heading down to the local hardware store, picking up some goods, getting courteous, professional service and advice, and driving back home. You can't do that here. It's not possible.
FOOD is a real RISK here. If it's from China, the cost is maybe equivalent to a western country, maybe a little cheaper. BUT, there is a huge health risk. The Chinese do some scary things to food products in their country. You don't have the same quality control as western countries. They will dye greens so they look fresh. They will dye meat so it looks fresh. It is a risk when shopping at the store. You don't know where it comes from, and you don't know if it's safe to eat. There is also the option of buying food products from western countries, such as Australia or NZ, but it is expensive because of shipping. There is also the risk of food quality due to pollution. You just don't know what kind of field that Chinese cabbage was grown in. Was it watered from the local river that had a shoe factory upstream? If it comes from China, there is a good chance this is the case.
Speaking of
POLLUTION, look up "China Pollution" on Google and take a long look at the images there. Hong Kong isn't as bad as Mainland China, but their wind blows our direction. The air quality is getting worse, because we are so close to Shenzhen and Zhuhai. They are industrial cities, and have all the ailments of Chinese industry. There are days that coworkers won't even let their kids out of the house because the pollution index to too high. On a plus note, it makes for beautiful sunsets.
Speaking of
HEALTH, one issue with Hong Kong is that the medical facilities are not like western countries. In some ways, Hong Kong has world-class medical care. Need surgery? Fantastic. Need a specialist? No problem. Kid broke his arm and you need help fast from someone who speaks good English? Uh, not so easy. Getting to an "emergency room" is not a simple task. If one of our children was injured here, the task of getting them treated isn't quite so straightforward. If you call an ambulance, what number do you call? Easy - 999. Will they speak English on the other end of the line, and understand what you're saying? Not really. Will they know where you are located? Hope you can say your location in Cantonese. When it comes to emergency medical care, there are always things lost in translation. That brings us to the cultural differences in medical practices, such as when it comes to having a baby. If you go to a public hospital, they will not allow your spouse to join you for support the birth. The woman is on her own, in a room with 2-5 other women also giving birth, all screaming in a foreign language she doesn't understand. A friend of mine was denied access to his wife and child multiple times during the labor and birth. It was either after "visiting hours" or some other reason... Cathay's insurance doesn't pay for maternity costs at all. That'll cost you $40,000+ if you go anywhere other than a public hospital.
Let's talk about the job, and in particular the Roster. Being a pilot is no longer the wonderful career it once was. It is now a blue-collar job. It used to be the case that an SO had all the time in the world, but no money. Part of that has changed. Here’s the new reality: ALL new joiners are going to the Airbus fleet, and they're ALL starting on the A330. That has the worst roster of all possible rosters at Cathay. Most of the flying is overnight, and with 3 crew members, meaning you sleep for 3 hours and work for 8. Those two factors mean that you will experience
constant fatigue, an irregular sleep schedule (for the rest of your life), and increased risk for health issues.
Try going to sleep in an armchair at 11pm, and getting up at 2am and flying a plane for 8 hours. That’s what it’s like every time you fly. What about rest during layovers? The company policy is that 24-hour layovers should be avoided because they cause significant fatigue, because you can't get normal sleep during a 24 hour period - When you arrive, you are tired and may sleep 8 hours, but when you wake up, you have 16 hours, and trying to sleep another 8 hours after being awake 8 hours doesn't work well. The next sign-on time will be exactly when your body says it’s bedtime again. That means even if your return trip to Hong Kong is a day trip, you still feel like sleeping. That’s exactly what most Airbus layovers are like. In fact, it’s what most layovers are like for CX pilots are in general. For comparison, cabin crew generally get twice as many days for layovers (and of course twice the allowance as well). You will suffer
health consequences as a result of these rostering practices. I have literally felt myself age more in the past 1-2 years than in the 4 years prior. I have gotten sick more often. Currently the company is trying to revise the flight time limitations (FTLs), and they won't make it easier on pilots. They don't need to revise FTLs to do that. Cathay’s rostering practices are also such that you won’t know what you’re doing next month until 15 days prior. Not so at many other airlines. Not knowing what your next month's roster is until the 15th makes planning with friends or family early in the month difficult. It keeps you from having that quality time you need to stay healthy and happy.
Let’s take a closer look at the long-term finances of the compensation package. The cost of living is increasing dramatically in Hong Kong, the pay scale does not increase much from year to year, and the "Hong Kong Pilot Allowance" does not make up the difference, or increase with inflation. So, give it another year and you'll effectively be making less than you are now. Your spouse could try to get a job in Hong Kong, but it'll be very hard to get a decent paying job without very good Mandarin and Cantonese, a good degree, and a lot of luck. With that job will come 12-hour days, 5 days a week, with half-days on Saturday. That's how Hong Kong rolls. Why come to a foreign country for this? Not worth it. People come to Hong Kong for a major financial opportunity over their home country. That incentive is no longer there. And, they usually only come to HK for a few short years, not a full career.
In Summary,
Had I the chance to do it over again, I would not join Cathay. Speaking from experience, I honestly can sit here and recommend that you avoid joining this company. It is not worth it. I would look for other opportunities, or stick with my previous career field. Make flying a hobby instead. You’ll be happier. Why don't I just leave? In the human resources business, they have a term called "iron handcuffs." That aptly describes the contract with Cathay. Once you sign it, you can't leave early without a significant cash outlay, which of course no one can afford, so the only thing you can do is ride out the term of your contract, with the hope that there will be good opportunities later on.
The bottom line is in order to have a good life you need to have a good family and social life. In order to do that, you need to have plenty of time and money. This job does not meet Western standards in this respect. The future will only get worse as they continue to search for the rock-bottom price they can pay for a pilot.
Now, for those who are from Hong Kong who are considering a position with Cathay, I would like to say a few more words... They are exploiting your culture. They are taking advantage of the fact that you are willing to live at home with your mom and dad while a new hire with a major corporation. If they can, they will take advantage of the fact that some of you consider a job title more important than the money you're working for. They will pay you less than they can because of this. The company CAN affort to pay you a significant housing allowance, too. They just don't
because they don't have to. They will instead pay that money to some business manager in the airline who came up with the idea of the cadet package and actually convinced people to sign up for it. When you are sitting across from your interviewer, keep in mind that they may get a bonus for convincing you to join the company on the cheap. Some of you are willing to take
anything they offer, with the hope that once in the door, things might improve. Let me shed some light on this line of thinking:
This is a specialist job. You can't just change companies mid-career like you can with a business management position. Even a doctor or lawyer could change practices mid-career if they so desire. Pilots cannot, at least not without significant loss of pay and benefits. So, when your performance merits a raise but your boss refuses to give you one, it doesn't matter. You are an Airbus or 777 pilot, and jobs for Airbus or 777 rated pilots can be VERY hard to come by. You can't leave without basically starting a new career. Once you join, you're locked into the contract you signed at age 21, or 22, or 25, or whatever. There are pilot unions in each company that make changing companies impossible without losing money. If you leave Cathay, you will end up at the bottom of some other company's heap of pilots. Once in the door, it's not you that has them, but they have you. Because the pay is adjusted merely at the will of management, you will find that the value of your earnings will decrease as inflation makes everything you need to buy more expensive. Maybe this doesn't matter now, but 2-3 years down the road when you want a woman in your life, it will. And 5-10 years down the road when you have kids and a wife, you'll realize that the career path you've chosen does not offer you the lifestyle you want, even for a native Hong Konger who knows how to live off the local economy. Take a long look at other career paths, and what guys are making down the road. Keep in mind that this job does not pay significant bonuses, like banking and other business jobs can. If you try to compare them, you'll see that what Cathay now offers is not what other companies would pay for someone of Cathay Pacific pilot calibre. They are getting cheap labor, and that cheap labor is
you, the local Hong Konger. I don't like it, and neither should you, and they need to know it's not right. I know they are offering "free" flight training, but at the very least they should also offer the full housing allowance on becoming a First Officer who is checked to the line, even to ab initio cadets.