Just to clarify, you made sense and that's all I needed...I was agreeing with you. I added Jorn HF OTHR and CNT to support what you said, being the limit of both ends that I know of. As I see it, VLO is just an enabler to get your system into play at a tactically significant range, it isn't pixie dust. Like yourself John makes sense and I read him with interest here and at another site.