Flap retraction

[Empty Cruise]

Tom,

if the flaps are up... that is the operational word. If an engine fails before you reach Vfto (or whatever it's called on your type), you are scuppered. You are at a speed and config for which no data exists.

Tom, I will take your bet and pay up if you can show me any AFM data on any type for climb in clean config below the nominated Vfto, Venr or whatever the OEM calls it.

Until then - you a grand down in my book.

That being said, I agree that not pitching for V2+10-20-ish when departing is daft. That will give you noise abatement (which EASA commercial operators need to follow anyways) as well as sorting the problem about when you can retract the flaps.

People ask how you can do that out of eg FAB with a 2.4k level-off. Two options here, given that obstacles are not a consideration:

1) Gear UP - Speedmode - VS 1000 fpm (to stop yourself triggering RAs left, right and centre) - through V2+whatever and accelerating , Flaps 0

2) Gear UP - Speedmode - VS 1000 fpm, thrust back (to keep speed in cehck and thus not bust your gradient), maintaining V2+whatever-you-got-to. Cleared further climb select climb thrust continue climb and accelerate, clean up on schedule.

Ie either lower your flap retraction altitude (option 1) or draw thrust back to keep noise, fuelflow and gradient inside acceptable limits - whch ever fits most closely with your SOP and NADP.

Meanwhile, we are waiting for that below-Vfto-clean data, Tom. Either post that or say "OK, maybe I didn't know what I was talking about in this case".