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Old 26th Nov 2012, 08:03
  #122 (permalink)  
CliveL
 
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Gordon,

Not wanting to go over old ground I wasn't going to do any more on this, but w.t.h. the golf course is unplayable, the river unfishable and its raining again ....


I had estimated the compressor inlet area at ~1 m^2...based on the engine static mass flow of ~450 lb/s...and an assumed inlet Mach of 0.5...
I make the compressor inlet area just about the same, and checking the mass flow from intake supply conditions a value of 189 lb/sec at FL580 looks about right also. The intake efficiency derived from the figures quoted would be around 94% which is also correct. That makes the compressor inlet Mach Number about 0.45.


Also surprised to hear a cruise thrust figure of just 8,000 lb...a Concorde website with lots of info gives 10,000 lb per engine...Wikipedia gives a Lift to Drag ratio of ~7 at M2 cruise...which would imply that ~50,000 lb of total thrust would be needed...since maximum weight is ~400,000 lb...fuel weight is ~200,000 lb...and fuel flow with max power and reheat is ~50,000 lb/hr...
You need to be careful with that 8050 lb figure - it is the thrust produced by an Ol 593 operating behind an intake that supplies 189 lb/sec mass flow at a total pressure of 8.5 psi. It does NOT include the thrust generated through the expansion of the flow in the secondary nozzle. Add on the 25~29% often quoted for this contribution and you are up to the 10,000 lb mark.

The actual cruise L/D was 7.5. Any Concorde pilot reading this could confirm, but I would expect that by the time the aircraft cruise climbed up to FL580 it would be at around 300,000 lb, which would fit well with the 10,000 lb per powerplant.


Looks to me like there is a fair bit of confusing information floating around...hope you can clear some of that up...would like to do a full cycle analysis on the engine at cruise power...that SFC figure of 1.2 is very impressive...
PM me if you need more detail

Going back to that 8050 lb thrust it is the thrust you would get from an engine and intake working together. The engine won't work without the intake and the intake won't work without the engine, so it is a bit pointless to consider them as separate units. As you suggest in a later posting, there are thrust and drag variations on the various components inside the engine proper (thrust on compressors and combustion chambers, drag on turbines etc) and nobody apart from the engine stressmen cares a stuff about those distinctions.

Better, I suggest, to consider the intake and engine together as a single powerplant and think of the intake as a zero stage compressor, or more accurately as a pre-diffuser set ahead of the first stage of the compressor.


That way you get to see the intake "thrust" as just another split in the breakdown of
powerplant force distribution.

Again as you say. its all in the book keeping, and as an accountant friend of mine is fond of saying "What answer do you want?"

Last edited by CliveL; 26th Nov 2012 at 08:21. Reason: Too many "inlets"
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