Flap retraction

[roulette]

Gee you guys are getting yourselves tied up in knots (the nautical kind)

tommoutrie :

400feet, v2+x, then the engine fails.
whats your plan?
where's your data?

There is obviously no single answer to your question Tom.

Everything obviously depends on the particular aircraft/model & config/MTOW etc ...and normal company SOPs for TO (including compliance with local regs and environmental op constraints, etc) ... and the actual airport, and surrounding obstacle and terrain environment (eg, say up to MSA) ... not to mention the airspace and procedures in place there. So, even if you only have single and homogenous fleet and only fly in one region, it's obviously the latter two that will bethe distinguishing factor.

For example,the question about 2nd stage is almost irrelevant if the TO is over water (where no tall ships are allowed and there are no wind turbines) or you’re in rural flatlands somewhere (Denmark? Some parts of Netherlands?) – except for noise constraints, obviously. Equally obviously, the answer’s quite different if the departure airport is in Switzerland, or Guilin, or Taiwan, or mountainous Latin America for example.

Many operators create specific company-specific EO/EFATO SOPs/Charts/Instructionsfor such events. And of course, getting the appropriate performance data from the manufacturer (if you don't have what you need already) is critical input, before making the relevant analysis of the specific airspace, terrain and obstacle environment and determination about safe tracking - to where (location, MSA, whatever) and how (turns, bank, etc) about whether you even need flaps beyond the normal 400ft minimum.

I've seen lots of different types of such EO/EFATO charts/procs. Some of them have nothing much more than tracks (including turns/brgs) and alts depending on when the EO occurred.Others include a lot of tabular data that allows the PIC to determine criticalop/config factors when continuing - including prevailing factors (eg, weight, OAT, winds, etc) as well as minimum required config (eg, rating, flap settings, 1 eng inop, gear position, thrust, etc) to enable achievement of Eng Inop gradient. Some are presented on very pretty charts with full coloured graphics. Others are pretty simple charts plus tables. Others are tabular or text only.

They all aim to give the pilot a reasonably simple proc to follow (in cockpit and for aviate/navigate) to assure obstacle+terrain clearance at that location and get one to a position from where the crew can determine what's best to do next.

aeroncaman: I do not think the CAA accept ' remain VMC, see and avoid' as an adequate contingency procedure. I recall this being discussed at length in an audit several moons ago.

Agree, absolutely NOT an adequate contingency measure. I guess it doesn’t need saying that you might start the SID process in IMC anyway, so “remaining” VMC may not be an option. That’s why the MSA is there… and that’s also why you may/should have EOI procedures.

mutt: … even Gulfstream have stated that ENGINE
FAILURE OCCURS EARLY IN THE DEPARTURE CLIMB, CONTINUATION OF THE SID CLIMB ON
ONE ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED.

…except where you’ve already determined that it may be safe with regard to obstacle/terrain clearance and more expeditious for handling subsequent actions (eg, return to dep AD or ALT).


As alluded to above, airline EO/EFATO contingency procs will sometimes have one or break-outs (location usually by distance from XXX &/or WPT &/or alt) from normal SIDs, depending on stated conditions. This not only helps the guys in the hotseats get themselves organised, but also minimises potential conflicts with normal ATM in the areas lower down and closer to the aerodrome.


So, those are the answers about flap retraction in Eng Inop situation.

For all engines, I believe you've now all accepted the appropriate answers!