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Old 24th January 2003 | 17:10
  #29 (permalink)  
OFBSLF
 
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: US
This last post looks as though it is from someone who has never had formal firearms training from an expert.
I've had about 160 hours of formal firearms training (4 times what a police cadet gets in most police academies in the state of Massachusetts).

I'm a firearms instructor certified by the NRA to teach Basic Pistol, Home Firearms Safety, and Personal Protection. I'm certified by the Massachusetts State Police to teach firearms safety. I'm a certified range safety officer and not too long ago was permitted by the US Army to act as range safety officer/officer in charge at the small arms ranges at Fort Devens. I'm also the Chief Range Safety officer of the gun club that I belong to. I know my way around a firearm.

For the most part, I agree with boofhead. I personally support having trained pilots carry firearms. I believe the added risk to passengers would be slight and that the risk of an accidental discharge would be quite low. A holstered gun is a safe gun -- the only way for a holstered gun to go off is if it is removed from the holster and the trigger is pulled. A handgun will not simply go off by itself -- someone has to be messing with it for it to go off. Modern design handguns won't go off if dropped. They will go off only if someone loads it and pulls the trigger.

boofhead said:
An automatic, by its design, cannot be fired unless it is grasped correctly, something a small hand cannot do. A revolver has a heavy trigger action and is difficult for a child to fire.
I have to disagree with you a bit here.

A few models of semi-automatics, like the M1911 (used by the US military for decades) and the more recent Steyr series, have grip safeties, which are a device on backstrap. These guns will not go off unless the grip safety is depressed, even if you try to pull the trigger. The grip safety is depressed when you take a proper firing grip. But most semi-autos these days do not have grip safeties. Some semi-autos have manual safeties (e.g., Berettas, S&W third generation), but many others do not (e.g., Glock, Sig). Small hands can sometimes fire a semi-auto -- it might take them some ingenuity, but kids are pretty ingenious.

The double-action pull on a revolver is relatively stiff (usually 10-12 lbs these days). While that may be beyond the strength of a smaller child, they probably can pull the trigger by bracing the gun against an object (say a chair). The single-action trigger pull of a revolver is usually much lighter (< 4 lbs). Single-action does require that the revolver be manually cocked, which may or may not be beyond the knowledge and strength of a particular child.

I strongly recommend that one never depend upon a particular feature of a gun to keep it safe from a child. Instead, I recommend that the guns be kept locked up when not in use (something that is required by law in some countries and some states of the US). I also recommend that you educate your child on firearms safety, starting with the Eddie Eagle message -- "stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult."

Are planes a bad place for a gunfight? Any place is a bad place for gunfight. Sept. 11 also showed us they are a bad place for a knife fight, particularly when the terrorists are the only ones with the knives.

To get back a bit closer to the main thread, no, I don't support having passengers carry guns. I do support trained pilots having guns and being trained to use them solely to protect the cockpit.

The Allied Pilots Association has a video on their web site illustrating how easily Tasers are defeated:

http://www.alliedpilots.org/Public/I...ming_media.asp

Having said all that I return to the original topic, this pilot and Mrs. Lou Dobbs commited an unforgivable sin IMHO. They forgot where their loaded gun was. These people probably remember turn off and lock their car when they aren't using it, but they can't remember to store a loaded weapon safely. I believe they may have violated some federal regulations in doing so. If I am wrong please cite the relevant law for my education. If I'm correct someone please charge them under the appropriate statute and lets get on with it.
They certainly violated federal law by trying to bring their guns into the secured area of an airport (even if they did so inadvertently). I am not aware of any US federal law or regulation regarding storage of firearms. Some US states do have laws regarding storage of firearms, but I'm unaware of any such law on the US federal level.

Most state storage laws would probably not apply anyways, since, in this case, the guns were not "stored." Instead, the guns were under the direct control of the pilot and Mrs. Dobbs, in their carry-on bags. They might have forgotten that the guns were there, but that doesn't meet the definition of being stored. Storage implies that the guns were left somewhere, out of their direct control, which was apparently not the case.
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