Originally Posted by West Coast
Within the narrow point of automation, I challenge anyone to prove that automation hasn't improved aviation safety(not implying that you have).
And therein lies the rub - you can't prove something that doesn't happen. You can only use statistics to infer something. When things happen, you can find causes, but when things don't happen (crashes), you have to surmise and assume and infer.
So, no, I can't prove automation hasn't improved safety...nor can I prove it has. I can agree with you that we have some of the safest skies ever. What's the reason? Automation? If so, remove the human element altogether and get rid of pilots. What's that? You don't want to do that? No surprise there either.
Semi-sarcastic retorts aren't an argument, so I concede. I can, however, point to the apparent lack of stick and rudder skills that decline at the same rate the arcane functions of the FMS are discovered. (sorry, more sophomoric sarcasm)
I remember as my grandfather regaled me with how easy I had it now that we had VORs. Why, back in his day, they had lit towers and A-N beacons....and then ADFs made navigation easy for everyone. But VORs, that was almost cheating! Of course, he also thought the T37 was blisteringly fast when he test flew it in the mid-60s when the Army was thinking about getting them as observation planes. Said I'd need to be on my toes to keep up with it as I headed off to pilot training. He was also aghast that I didn't have to roll out on a precise heading when I told him about my spin training in the mighty T37...
So, perhaps you're right, it's just a generational bemoaning of nostalgia for lost arts. I don't think any of the navigators missed their sextants though.
I'd just like to see guys know how to use rudders, that's all...