Originally Posted by Bus Junkie
AF pilots seem to have a real problem with basic flying skills.
What is their issue?
Oh... not much... they just wrecked a widebody a couple of years ago with loss of all aboard. It does tend to concentrate media and internet fora attention on AF incidents.
I am not saying AF doesn't have its problems, I do tend to agree with Hetfield. I'm just saying that malaise is a) not as dangerous or critical as some panicky exclamations of "Today pilots cant fly!" claim b) far, far more widespread than just Air France.
Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo
The 737's A/T disengagement annunciating system, as you likely know, is cack and relies heavily on the crew to be monitoring the FMA at all times.
If I may suggest alternate procedure: monitor airspeed, if it falls below target, don't waste your time on analyzing "Eh... what is autothrottle doing now?", just disconnect it and set the needed thrust manually. Fly the aeroplane first, troubleshoot second. Feasible?
Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo
With the BOH incident the aircraft approached the stall, the crew applied TOGA thrust and the resulting pitch power couple stalled the aircraft.
It could be easily avoided... if the crew only remembered to use manual trim or if they flew aeroplane with autotrim...
Originally Posted by Tcahikovsky
As pilots, out primary role in these modern days is to monitor the automatics.
Hopefully this was sarcasm. Anyone truly believing this knows
about automatics or flying in general.
Pilots are there to control the aeroplane; no more, no less! If they have to use automatics to help them, so be it but not a little bit of responsibility for the flight can be offloaded to a mindless entity, such as autopilot. "Monitoring" doesn't just mean "sit there and watch" but also "do something and do it right when things go wrong".
Originally Posted by Fireflybob
I don't blame the individuals - it is the system (or lack of it) that has produced this result.
I agree but it might turn out we agree for the different reasons.
Originally Posted by Fireflybob
If we want pilots to be competent they have to be in practice at hand flying.
Competent for what? Have a look at all the accidents and major incidents in airline transport for last couple of decades where lack of flying skills featured prominently and you'll be hard pressed to find the single one that goes along the storyline of typical GA VFR into IMC: "He wasn't skilled so he got killed" Almost all include minor distractions that eventually lead to pilots' flying abilities to go to pieces. Flying raw data manual ILS when everything is working fine can increase pilots' confidence in their skills but it only marginally better prepares a pilot for that manual go-around on dark night or to both recognize and admit that he has screwed up badly and abandon the approach for another try. If there is an area that can be seen as lacking, it's mental, not manual skills. There are still far more pilots who handle the crises successfully than those who turn up minor malfunction into major catastrophe.
Originally Posted by Smudger
do these people have no sense of self preservation...
Oh yes, they do. Problem is there is nothing to activate their sense of self preservation. They have no idea that flying is inherently dangerous and getting and maintaining the level of safety we have today took a lot of effort on part of everyone involved in air transport.
Another problem is the modern manager, who has been trained from kindergarten that there is rulebook for everything and everything must stick to rulebook. There is no appreciation of how we got our rules written in the first place. There is no recognition or appreciation that the pilots who were in love with flying always acquired knowledge of the air & machinery far, far in excess of what the regulations required of them and many times this saved the day. So the ignoranti put their faith in learning the rulebooks by rote and get nasty surprise when they can remember what chapter 4 page 42 of OM-this-and-that said when tension is high.
Originally Posted by A4
WHO WAS FLYING THE AIRCRAFT?!!
Seemingly, no one.
Originally Posted by A4
AVIATE, navigate, communicate. ECAM is secondary - make sure your not going to fall out the sky!!!
Yup. It says a lot about how bad it is if it has to be mentioned at all.
Originally Posted by aviofreek
Not going into any particular reasons how or why an incident/accident occured, just when it comes to AF, there's too many of them.
...reported in the media. Similar effups don't make it further than internal safety publications or AAIB bulletin at the worst and don't get picked up by media.
Originally Posted by Oakape
The manufacturers have convinced the airlines that the automatics are so good on their aircraft that they don't need to spend a fortune on training, so they don't.
Possibly yes (heck, I'd say: probably) but if you take a closer look at their manuals, not a single one explicitly says so. Legally, manufacturers are off the hook for this one and I wholeheartedly suggest their manuals should be followed to the letter and not to some (perhaps imagined) spirit of them that suggests that automation can replace pilot skills.
Originally Posted by StromKnight
On the actual throttle levers is there any indication (coloured leds for example) to show the status of the throttles? Auto/manual/engine failure etc?
We have FMA for this.
Originally Posted by StormyKnight
I just think scanning gauges & looking at the physical position of throttle levers is going to continue to be an issue.....
Looking at the physical position of the throttle lever is a big issue. It's pretty useless. Those who believe throttle position say something about delivered power have acquired very dangerous habit.
Originally Posted by Stormyknight
With the airspeed, the aircraft would know what is normal for approach & show green, if it wasn't normal it would show orange & red if it was close enough to stall to warrant it....
We already have something very similar on Airbus since 1988!
Originally Posted by StormyKnight
In addition even if the pilot turns it off, somehow you need to confirm he knows it's off....."Are you sure Y/N?" to avoid accidentally or inadvertently turning something off (or on...)
Sure. And Windows 8. Intentional ATHR disconnect gets ECAM message, you have to press athr discon twice to clear it. Similar with autopilot.
Originally Posted by Stormyknight
As I see it these planes are smart enough to fly themselves but they aren't real good at keeping the pilots informed what they are doing.......
As
you see it. See previous entries.
Originally Posted by StromyKnight
What am I missing?
Basic knowledge of how Airbus cockpit looks, let alone how her instruments work.