Without Autotrim, the elevators paid off at ceiling limit, at the beginning of 'momentum'! At this point the nose was dropping, and there was almost the recovery when Captain came in, but the SW honked again, he pulled, the THS kept winding up, and he mushed into the STALL, the Nose dropped later, by thirty five degrees in ten seconds, she started to roll like a pretzel, is that what you want in a STALL? Or would elevators quit be a better schema?