PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - CTC Wings ATP Scheme (Merged)
View Single Post
Old 5th Aug 2012, 10:13
  #885 (permalink)  
Bealzebub
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
but in this instance you are not accepting to see the reality.
Having re-read your post above, I marvel at the irony!

The reality is that they are selling you a product at a specific price point. If you don't like the product or the price, then that is fine, don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you to.

Your rather rambling rant seems to be tethered to an idea that there is a promise of a permanent job attached to this course, the numbers of which they fail to disclose, thus making the whole product a "scam"?

This FTO has a number of customer airlines who from time to time and as it absolutely suits their needs, take cadets into their own specific programmes from this training source. The numbers and the opportunity events are limited and variable.

The FTO makes it clear that airline placement opportunities are generally offered to whatever "wings cadet" candidates are available at that time. Those candidates are selected from a pool (if there is one) of such candidates. These candidates can only guess (as can the FTO) how big that "pool" will be at the point of graduation. Despite projections, optimism, best guesses, and determination, it is impossible to know what the recruitment market will be at any point in the future. Nevertheless that is the reality of the marketplace.

This "add on" course (which is the final part of the wings cadets basic/intermediate training) is also available as a stand alone course to people like yourself. Successful graduates are offered the possibility of also being placed in a "pool" for airline placements. However this pool is secondary to the "wings cadet" pool, and is only ever likely to be drawn on when there are insufficient numbers of candidates in the primary pool. That is the reality!

Over the last few years the pool of primary candidates (wings cadets) has reflected the downturn of the customer airlines recruitment requirements. The waiting time in that primary pool has reached a level of one year or so at times. The candidates don't want that. The FTO doesn't want that. You can be sure the customer airlines don't want it either, but again that is the reality!

Had it not been for one large customer (easyjet,) that pool would by now resemble an ocean. Terms and conditions offered to those graduates have been discussed ad nauseum so I won't recap them. However that customer took advantage of the true state of the marketplace, and without them, there would have been almost no movement at all. That is the reality!

By the end of last year (2011) the FTO had worked to secure new customers, and more established customers also came back into the frame. In fact this happened to sufficient degree that wings cadets were finishing their instrument ratings and the next day starting their 3 week AQC courses. From these courses they were then walking seamlessly straight into airline placements. Many of these placements were on significantly better terms than "flexicrew" although that programme continues to also offer those opportunities. That is the reality!

Where the cadet pool couldn't satisfy demand, candidates were drawn from the secondary pool, and some were offered placements with the same airlines and on the same terms. Those cadets (from both source pools) are now likely (in the cases of which I am aware) to be offered permanent contracts at the end of their six month placement periods this Autumn, subject to performance. That is the reality!

Airline recruitment tends to take place so that training occurs in the quieter Winter months. Not always, but usually. For this reason it is inevitable that "holding pools" grow in the Spring/Summer period, and shrink in the Autumn/Winter. This assumes that there are significant periods of such recruitment. That is the reality!

So you want specific numbers? Well I am aware of around 10% of this years intake coming from the non-primary pool in one company. Customer airlines (of which we are but one) would tend to regard specific information as a confidential arrangement between ourselves and the supplier. There is a lot of such confidential information when it comes to airlines or any other business. Whether this FTO chooses to disclose specific numbers as it relates to their customers is a matter for them. However I can be sure that there is movement flow in that respect.

If you are unhappy, then assume the figure you seek is "zero" and ask yourself if you are still happy to buy the product on that premise? If the answer is no, then that is the end of the matter. If the figure you seek is more than "zero", then you you should regard the opportunity as a "bonus." In fact the number is significantly more than "zero" but I do not know what it is, and nor do I have the right to know. Likewise, nor does anybody else as it isn't what they are selling.

So in summary, what reality is it that you think I am not accepting? I would suggest to you, that you are looking for "guarantees" that simpy do not exist. There is a very high degree of risk in this business, not only in this specific topic, but in the whole industry. In seeking to minimize your exposure to such risk, you will of course want to research your odds. Nevertheless you are not going to eliminate the risk, and you are going to come up against the frustrations of not getting confidential or proprietory information that you might feel "entitled" to. That doesn't mean something is a "scam," and you ranting that it is, is both erroneous and shows a weak understanding of both the current industry and the marketplace.

Are there any other "realities" you think I don't have a basic grasp of?
Bealzebub is offline