Originally Posted by Clandestino
If stick is pulled against the rear stop and nose is just bobbing around, you are out of control
- no - you are probably stalled. What if when they move the stick forwards and the nose goes down - were they still
out of control?
This back and forth discussion on buffet is really irrelevant
. The 'buffet' that is occupying so much etherspace here is the traditional 'buffet' we train for in classic stalls (at S&L stalling alphas) where the separated airflow from the wing 'plays' on a control surface such as the elevator or tailplane. Reference to mm's diagrams of the dynamics of an AoA of 40 degrees will show that in all probability the separated airflow missed the tail surfaces. Yes, it would sound and feel different. Those of us who have had the 'experience' of such will know that Lyman's quote
"A ballistic STALL is gentle, almost graceful," is exactly correct and that is what 447 had. A totally different dynamic and one very few airline pilots will have experienced.