PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - AF 447 Thread No. 8
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 15:52
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: florida
Age: 81
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Touch and experience and training

Thanks for the opportunity, Clan...

What is so remarkable about AF447 but is mostly glossed over, is that loss of control looked extremely benign on the inside. There were no extreme attitudes, no rapid attitude changes, no high or low G, no spin, nothing. Just unwinding altimeters.
I pointed this out early - the jet seems to have an excellent aerodynamic design. No extreme buffet, roll oscillations ( extreme, not the ones we see on the traces), etc.

I imagine the Concorde had the "standard" delta sink rate characteristics as the F-102 and other deltas - a slight buzz and then an unwinding altimeter and great directional control/stability. The buffet and shaking in most swept wing jets of the fighter genre had pronouced buffet and roll/yaw excursions. Ask Retired about the Double Ugly. I could feel the "buzz" in the F-102 as I lost those lifties and drag overcame lift. Many pilots could not, and their first clue was the unwinding altimeter or a sharp drop when in the "flare" ( gear damage was not uncommon).

That being said, I maintain that training for stall recognition and entry is possible, maybe even in the sim. I would advocate a stick shaker, but if your FBW system disregards AoA under certain laws, then that wouldn't work in the real jet, huh? OTOH, certainly the airframe buffet would be different enough from normal turbulence and spoiler deflection, etc. to provide a clue when the instruments are FUBAR. There might be a way to use the data from AF447 to introduce mechanical vibrations in the sim and let the folks "feel" it.

BTW, the Viper family models I flew were the "B" models, as in first ones ever manufactured. Not only were we in tandem cockpit seats, but the stick only moved 1/8 inch! Figuring out what Joe Baggodonuts in the front seat was doing was a bear.
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