Owain
"I think you've got it about face again - +ve sidestick is ND - he's lingering in NU."
Exactly. Precisely. Clearly. With a focus on that, let's compare what happened at the STALL "BREAK" with what happens at the unlatch of the autopilot.......
Just as PF has got the flight path mastered, (per BEA), the Bars return, and he follows with aft stick (he is told he is LOW), BUT, with a trained in response that did them in he selects TOGA, and just enough NU from the Thrustline to get to AoASTALL 9.6. and bob's your uncle.
That is how they STALLED. How did they CLIMB, to get into such a precarious position in the first place? The same way. The same way the other flight climbed, they pulled.
BUT WHY? Following "orders"? Of course, how else? I have been trying to get it into the discussion for a while, let's take an honest look at the pilotage. It was not impatience, wholly, or even partially that started the climb to disaster, it was the data on the Flight screens. Garbage in, garbage out, climb back up to the flight path. It was not Turbulence, nor an UPdraft, it was the boxes.
Why would the pilots insist on climbing, especially when the REC was discussed, and agreed to be not partial to ascent? Why would they persist in the climb?
Follow me, flyboy..... The siren song of an aircraft who cannot tell the truth. It is not her fault, these things happen. The FD bars were lying at the outset, it is what got them into the zoom to begin the disaster, and when the PF had it sorted, they returned, just at the critical point when the Pilot had it "mastered"
You all believe what you will, or what you are told. The first response to the bars in PITCH and RUDDER got them onto the dirt road to HELL, and they were close to getting back on the tarmac, but fate....
Look at the teeny little hook on mm43's excellent graph, where the FD comes back just prior to the STALL...That's TOGA, a pinch more NU, and "crazy speed" follows, STALLED. Of course he was flying the FD's, they were on, and the a/c doesn't show them if they "lie".... But at the first? What 'started' the accident?
To me, I always wondered why everyone's attention was deliberately focused downstream, to get into reams of post STALL/ZOOM conjecture.
That is where the crash began, when the pilot followed his data, to climb. And climb, and.....climb. At first the a/c was hesitant, almost sentiently resisting the ascent, but in the end, she Nosed up, and that was that. Gargabe in, garbage out.
"Why would an experienced pilot keep pulling, against his better judgment?"
To bubbers44: He DID, but not due lack of 'stuff'. You would do what he did, so would PJ2, so would gums, Machinbird, and on.... In the ****, you fly instruments. Everyone does, it is trained.
Of course there's more, but I prefer to start at the most important cause, and let follow the chain behind.
Last edited by Lyman; 18th May 2012 at 13:56.