Indeed, bubbers. Hence my suggestion that to avoid the back axle effect italia defined his/her "axes and values"
BOAC... Not being disrespectful, but I honestly don't know why you think I wasn't clear in defining up and down. I could have said something like down is defined as being towards the center of the earth when the airplane is in an attitude that is parallel to the surface of the earth, but I thought it was clear enough without some complicated definition.