PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - AF 447 Thread No. 8
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Old 14th May 2012 | 22:03
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Lonewolf_50
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From: Texas
For Lyman:
fifty four seconds total of STALLWARN, and not a word......do you think that odd, Lonewolf?
Yes, odd, even though I have seen something very much like that in real life previously*.

I repeat my guess regarding what is behind that non-reaction: SW presumed spurious due to known airspeed spurious input. That said, simply paying more attention to "tasks x, y, and z" may render the audio input less compelling.

*Two (of a number) things I experienced IRL to do with warnings ignored.

A. Late 80's. Night training flght. Safe for solo check, me Instructor, one Student. Standard arrival VMC, night, final landing. Task: simulate "you have an engine oil high temp, low pressure" (engine oil leak drill). Student chooses correct response: climb to high key then set up for a (power on, training) dead stick landing profile. Which he did, except ... (this is at night, warning lights tend to be brighter in the cockpit at night) when he got to high key (~ 2500 feet AGL) he dropped the flaps rather than the gear and began his turn.
This gave him multiple warnings:
Caution light flashing (he'd turned on the landing lights),
flashing red light
loud and annoying warning horn,
He reported to me "three down and locked, landing checklist complete" and proceeded into the turn for low key (which is the abeam / 180 position) for a dead stick landing profile. He reset the Master Caution ... but didn't fix anything else.
I allowed him to continue, figuring he'd catch his configuration error and fix it at the 180. He approaches the 180, calls tower, reports three down and locked (all three indications were up, all warnings still going off) and continues.
Tower clears him to land.
He hits the 90, roughly on profile, (a bit high now, as he should have gear and flaps down already) and reports to me "gear down, flaps down, checklist complete" and begins a gentle slip (a technique taught for altitude control in the dead stick provile) to get his final better matched to profile.
All lights and aural warnings still going off.
I direct him, as he turns to final, to wave off / go around. (IP wants to preclude wheels watch shooting flares at us at night).
I call tower "Wave off, request left Low key" as the student obediently waves off this approach, and tried to raise the gear.
And now, the icing on the clueless cake.
"Sir, the gear handle won't go up, are you holding it down?"
(Instructors would occasionally guard gear handle to avoid certain errors, overspeed gear, etc).

My reply: "You never lowered it, which is why you can't raise it any higher than UP, A---. I have the controls."

I cleaned up the aircraft, took it to low key, performed the rest of the dead stick profile, and landed the aircraft, emphasizing to him the absence of the warning horn, absence of warning lights, and absence of anything odd.

I had flown with him before, and he'd usually gotten things in the right order. I had been his instructor on his first night flight, and he'd flown that same profile correctly then. What struck me was how the warning at night are so much more noticeable, and he never seemed to "see" them.

For whatever reason, he went brain dead and exposed a tendency to report things by rote that he wasn't doing. (Bad idea) No solo for him.

B. Year 2001, me pilot under instruction (referesher training) and my experienced IP has the controls. Day, VFR, return to base for final landing. Pilot enters the break nicely, gets to the 180, calls 3 down and locked (and I check, seeing the handle up and indicators up, and flaps going down) and he calls tower, three down and locked, for landing permission.
I say
"T---, the gear handle is still up, as are the wheels, and that warning horn is kinda loud."
Pause.
Wheels go down, flaps stay down, we review the checklist complete together, agree we have three down, and we land safely. (He buys at the club that afternoon, needless to say. )

From novice to experienced pilot ... it can happen.

What makes me so confused and so sad is that it seems to have happened to both pilots on the flight deck in AF 447.

That is why I lean toward an internal dialogue inside each head "with airspeed unreliable, stall warning must be spurious."

I could be very wrong, and it may be some other thing, or a bunch of other things.
My take is that the PF was unaware of his climb, and his instruments were not helping him to decide the correct attitude, plus a concern for Overspeed. Another factor could be an uncommanded ascent. Make no mistake, his pull on the stick caused climb, but can we eliminate the a/c climbing on her own?
Altitude display was not known to be manfunctioning, nor the attitude indicator malfunctioning. (Slight unknown, but no strong direct evidence for)
From info reported, PNF's attitude indicator was for sure working.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 14th May 2012 at 22:10.
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