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Old 30th Mar 2012, 15:06
  #63 (permalink)  
italia458
 
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That's odd because the relationship "THP = SHP * p.e." is from NAVAVSCOLSCOM-SG-111 page 4 and the equation tells me that I am developing THP if I am converting SHP using a propeller which has an efficiency >0. There is no mention of aircraft speed.
You're correct, except for that last sentence. Look at this picture taken from NAVAVSCOLSCOM-SG-111: http://i.imgur.com/R43ho.png

The speed of the aircraft (to be specific it would be the TAS of the aircraft) is included in the THP equation. It also shows that when at a TAS of 0, the THP is equal to zero.

I already explained this earlier and I used that exactly picture in post #9.

Your formula involving aircraft speed is good for explaining climb performance etc. but is not exclusive to explaining THP.
No, it does explain THP. Read the documents that I've attached in this thread.

As for everyone here: Stop saying what you 'think' is happening and stating it as a fact. If you are going to 'prove' something, please include evidence that proves that point, as I have done. If you have evidence that proves that what I'm saying isn't correct, I'm more than willing to listen. However, none of you are providing evidence that proves that Wikipedia, the U.S. Navy and William Kershner are all wrong. The document that oggers posted does not relate to what I was talking about. I have not read the document in its entirety, but I will eventually as it looks like a fantastic explanation about helicopter aerodynamics.

I disagree - standing on earth is not an inertial frame of reference. Your observation of the free flight of a golf ball shows you that you are in an accelerating frame of reference.
1) I agree that earth is technically not an inertial reference frame, however, forces on earth can be analyzed as being in an inertial reference frame.

2) A reference frame is (courtesy of Wikipedia): "a coordinate system or set of axes within which to measure the position, orientation, and other properties of objects in it, or it may refer to an observational reference frame tied to the state of motion of an observer. It may also refer to both an observational reference frame and an attached coordinate system as a unit." In the case of what we're talking about, it is both an observational reference frame and an attached coordinate system as a unit.

3) In an inertial reference frame, an object can be at rest with zero forces acting on it or at rest with all forces acting on it, balanced. An object can also be in motion with all forces either zero or balanced. An object can also be accelerating in an inertial reference frame due to an imbalance of force.

4) Your golf ball explanation doesn't prove what you're saying. The reason it is falling does NOT prove that it is in an accelerating frame of reference. It shows that there is a force imbalance which is causing the acceleration. Assume that the atmosphere is a vacuum. The wall will be 'fired' up and then will come down. The reason it comes back down to earth is because the force of gravity on the ball is not being opposed! It is accelerating back down to the earth. This is a basic problem that is easily analyzed in an inertial reference frame in ab initio physics courses. You're unnecessarily complicating the problem by analyzing it from a non-inertial reference frame.

5) Just like the golf ball phenomenon can be explained in an inertial reference frame, so too can an aircraft in flight. And that's how it has been done for ages!! If there wasn't lift, the gravity acting on the aircraft would accelerate it back to earth.
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