“Oggers... I'm done dealing with this. You're going to have to figure this out on your own.”
It's okay. I figured it out in 1981 with a little help from the grown-ups at Farnborough.
“Or just be happy with your answer knowing that all these textbooks say that you're wrong.”
Not disagreed with a single reference you’ve given. Just pointed out they don’t support your point.
“I could derive the equations to show you how they got to Power = thrust x airspeed but it's not worth it because you'll just say that I'm wrong!”
No need, I already passed the exams. But it’s irrelevant here. It doesn’t support your point.
“It seems like Harold decided to recant his post”
Well, it's gone. Maybe because it was a carbon copy of two previous ones and as such breached the guidelines?
“You're just the same as people who are told one thing in a somewhat convincing manner and believe it like a religion even in the face of clear evidence showing that what they were initial taught is wrong.”
Actually I like clear evidence. What you've posted though, is more like a load of red-herrings, strawmen and general verbosity...
“Are you going to tell me now that all the forces in a turn are balanced, like so many books and instructors teach it?”
...case in point. Where did that come from?
“You haven't addressed ANY of the evidence that I've shown you that says you're wrong.”
There is no evidence. There is only you stamping your feet and insisting on your own personal definition of what constitutes THP.
“So why don't you take the time now to write a little blurb and tell the US Navy that they don't know what they're talking about and write to William Kershner and tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.”
Because – as I pointed out before - that Navy stuff is correct. But it doesn’t support your point, it is redundant in that context.
“I'd be happy to go into detail on these matters for someone who was interested in learning about why they say Power = thrust x airspeed. But considering our interaction so far, I think I'll pass.”
You said that twice in the same post. It’s not required but I see you went ahead and laboured the point anyway in your next post.
“Edit: This is the nice teacher in me coming out: You said you were a transmission design engineer. I think your misunderstanding of this is coming from that.”
Because transmission designers are known for having trouble understanding thrust, torque and power?
“When sitting stationary on the runway with full throttle, you're creating tons of thrust. You can ask where that's coming from…”
Thanks, I.…oh wait you’re telling me anyway:
“…and I'd say it's coming from the torque of the engine and the RPM of the crankshaft which is turning the propeller....”
...okaaay...
“..which is power. Since the engine is able to turn the crankshaft, it's creating power...”
...riiiight...
“..if the RPM was zero, it would be zero power, even though there might be lots of torque.”
Whaaaaaat?!!! Stop the record. An engine at zero RPM and lots of torque? Better have a good handbrake!
“…Imagine yourself turning a bolt with a wrench, when you apply a lot of torque to the wrench and it doesn't move, there is no work being done. When the bolt finally starts to move, then you start doing work and your boss will agree with you!”
What if I don’t have a boss - is work still being done?
“…Even though you will tell your boss that you've been 'working' on the bolt all day and it hasn't moved, your boss will yell at you and correctly tell you that you've done zero work!”
To be honest mate, if I can’t get a bolt off quickly by the simple application of torque I don’t spend all day pulling on the wrench. But if that's your method, fair enough.
“…Back to the airplane... so to get that thrust we need power from somewhere and its coming from the engine. That power is termed BHP or SHP. But I can create 10000 BHP on my engine and go nowhere!”
Go nowhere sure but can you make 10 000 BHP and not generate so much as a thrust pony?
“…Even though I've actually been moving pistons up and down in the engine and doing lots of work there, I've done no work on the vehicle because it hasn't moved!”
Are you telling me that when I was releasing bolts you were in the engine? BTW everyone knows that 'no work is being done on the vehicle'. But: work...is...being...done...on...the...air.
“…And that's what we're talking about when we say THP. We're talking about the 'work' that the thrust does and that relates to aircraft performance. So if we create a lot of thrust but we don't move, we are not creating any THP. Thrust/THP and Torque/BHP(SHP) are separate concepts.”
Nice story, thanks for sharing. But who is this ‘we’? Is there someone in there with you? If so why not ask them if a helicopter is producing any THP in the hover.