Originally Posted by RR NDB
Is it possible?
For at least 15th time on AF447 related threads: yes, it is not just possible, it happened before. There was at least one other crew mistaking stall buffet for overmach:
ASN summary of Northwest Orient B727 N274US accident near Stony Point on DEC 01 1974 with link to NTSB report included.
Originally Posted by alanp
It happened in flight school :- when the PF wasn't told to go away.
Could be, but so far I see no proof to it as: a) three preliminary reports are quite elaborate on the technical matters while being pretty thin on HF side b) being competent pilot does not come granted after the training obstacle course has been negotiated. It is matter of keeping oneself fit to fly; there was many a pilot with five-digits total times who perished after making a beginner's mistake c) there's the additional issue of CM1 not recognizing that pulling 15° ANU at typical cruise level is very bad idea or what is the significance of computer shouting "STALL STALL STALL". It's all very well discussing cockpit authority gradient but we are looking at failure of CM1 to realize the gravity of the situation and that CM2 actions will turn out to be lethal pretty soon. Idea of having two pilots is the same one behind having doubled or tripled ADC, IRUs and NAVs - CRM and MCC does not mean we use each other as a crutch but rather that as long as both pilots independently arrive to same conclusion where the aeroplane is, where it is going and where it should be going there's good chance they're correct.
Originally Posted by Organfreak
I mistakenly got the impression that most here feel that the stall could have been corrected, mostly from earlier posts. I confused that issue with a separate one: the stall should not have happened in the first place.
Second notion is totally correct, first notion is correct up to the certain point in time which cannot be precisely determined as no other A330 has ever ventured into AoA achieved by AF447. Given the pitch-down of the A330 when the sticks were released, chances are aeroplane could be recovered successfully until there was no sufficient altitude available to recover from dive. While it is certain that A330 can be recovered from stall if recovery is initiated as soon as practicable after G-break, we don't know what was the latest time/level at which recovery from extreme AoA had to be initiated. It could be FL300 or FL200 or even FL100, perhaps there will be enough data for aerodynamists to say their verdict, perhaps we'll never know.