Okay....
I know I said I wouldnt bother looking at this, but suprisingly (or unsuprisingly), I have managed to have a few beers (hitting the bottle!) and have looked at the replies and discussed them with a few of my peers......
Well this thread has obviously caused a stir; touched a few nerves and, provoked a reaction from people involved Commericial Flight Training and 'almost' involved alike.............and, inevitably..... wound-up the GA 'Jeremy-Clarkson-alikes' Community..(!)
First of all, I've seen a few posts from lads/girls who were 'about' to join Cabair.....I'm glad you haven't lost any (serious) money. However, I also wonder what would have happened if y'all had not have been put off joining.......
I completely understand the hostility from the GA guys.....bore off part-timers: this thread is about us youngsters; nobody wants/needs to hear your embittered opinion on OUR situation that you have NO basis for commenting on....I would suggest, unless you are an ATPL FI, CFI or an ATPL or CPL Grad or a current student....dont bother continue reading. There's nothing here that concerns you, and nothing that you have any basis on commenting on. Although, I'm sure that wont stop you.........
I can understand the criticism from the "if you'd had done some research, you'd have known" and the "I have no sympathy 4 u because you were stupid enough to pay up front" guys...so I'd like to address these head on.
For a start...when I wrote the initial post I was/am ANGRY at the world and ANGRY and want/ed ANYONE to listen. I have lost £70,000 of my family's money.....we are not a family that can cover this and move on quickly.
Secondly, mine is not an isolated case...a great many of Cabair students paid up front. And why wouldnt we????.......(wait 'til the end of the post to tell us how stooopid we were)
So....with regards to research....okay......lets take this one on first.....
I went to the Flyer trade fair at T5; sat through the seminars by FlyBe who COMPLETELY AND UNRESERVEDLY endorsed Cabair. The Chief of Air Crew who stood and said they were sending their Cadets to Cranfield because of "Cabair's stellar reputation for training 'excellent' Pilots" (DIRECT QUOTE). This was in 2010. I was duly impressed by this. I then did my pre-selection with GAPAN - something that was NOT necessary, and something that I did not want to do but something to keep my dad happy (an ex-RAF pilot and my main 'sponsor', whose confidence in GAPAN was unshakable, because it was "just the same as OASC @ RAF CRANWELL") after paying a few hundred pounds.
So...like most of my peers...I embarked upon the 'selection' for the only four 'blue ribband' training providers of Integrated ATPL(A) courses. Some were 'harder' than others; atleast one was EXACTLY the same as the RAF's Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre at Cranwell. I threw myself into all of it. In six weeks I had EASILY passed three of the UK based selection centres, the RAF OASC and the further AIB. I did not complete the process for the 'Spanish based one...'... because it was taking too long...I hope you'll respect me for not naming names of FTO's.
"......Ive got no sympathy.....you should have known that a financial outlay of that magnitude would have come with inheritant risks......"
Yep, fair enough....all I can say in response of that is this.....I am not Business/Financial minded. I am a Maths Graduate. Cabair had been training Airline Pilots for over thirty years. Why would I be suspicious? Cabair seemed just as good as the rest...albeit for their shoddy Ground School premises (but was run by one of the finest gentleman I have ever had the pleasure to have met, PAUL HARDIE).
It would seem that the "solid research" you are all referring to....... is to this site's 'comments' and 'forums', which amounts to little more than gossip...??
I was approached at the T5 fair by J**_****** of Greece who offered a complete Ab-Initio ATPL(A) with a Type Rating for £50,000. I obviously did my research on this and made the conclusion that anything that sounded "too good to be true" probably is..... (Incidentally, this school is still operating....how..??..in Greece....?...Surely the Govt. cant cover the extra thousands and thousands of pounds its students will face?????). Cabair, in comparison to this fly-by-night operation, and others like it... EagleJet et al, seemed like a decent BRITISH, reliable and stable set-up.
So, if you or your son/daughter were in my position, at the time..... FlyBe announcing they were sending ALL of their cadets to Cranfield etc....BA's Chief Pilot announcing there was to be a "Pilot shortage by 2025" (whilst dotting the I's and crossing the T's on BA's first 'sponsorship scheme in almost 15 years).......a completely reputable Integrated Training Provider explaining that if "you paid everything, you could just burn through it quickly and have no stress or distractions, or fuel surcharges"....would you not have been taken in?......
....I'm sure GA """"pilots"""", who stoke rumours and who can work with hindsight because they obviously have an ability everyone else doesn't could have predicted this....."
........but I think, as a 22 year old, dealing with a 40 year old reputable, CAA accredited, integrated FTO, who has trained Pilots for EVERY decent airline in the world could not have seen this coming.
You all can slate me, take the pi$$, or hammer me, my peers, and our parents for "paying up front". Perspective and Hindsight are wonderful things when, and if, you have them....
I make NO, and I repeat NO, NO, NO, NO, NO apologies for any 'hurt' feelings or pride from my first post. If you are not "in the know", in the industry, a student, an instructor, someone who can help.....why bother chipping in?
My message to any of you 'keyboard warriors and arm-chair pilots' is this.........
......over 40 Cabair Students are over 50K down. Cabair WAS a respectable, if cheaper, brand. Maybe we were naive to pay all up front. I'm not the only one who paid in advance, and I doubt any of my peers who have lost life-changing amounts of money will be posting here. BUT, we are committed, bright, young lads/girls and we WILL make the best of this. I'm sure in two years you bitter, twisted people people will still be reading this and still be thinking of a 'witty retort'.
GOOD LUCK GUYS. KEEP THE DREAM GOING AND DONT LET THE BASTARDS GET YOU DOWN.......
Firstly, I am very sorry for the predicament you find yourself in G-STRX. Unfortunetaly whenever you are dealing with a company you are always going to be vulnerable to this risk. I know it doesn't help you at all, but for more years than I can remember, people on these forums have been stating over and over again that you should never pay more money up front than you can reasonably afford to lose if this sort of thing were to happen, and indeed it does happen. Use credit cards where possible to mitigate the risk, but never allow a company to hold large sums of your cash signficantly in advance of the usage period.
I am a bit surprised that you blame this website and its contributors for that companies woes. A company goes bust for one very simple reason.
It runs out of operating cash. If I remember correctly (and I can't find the post,) you joined this forum last summer with a post about the problems you had experienced trying to obtain a US visa with a DD conviction. Since then it seems you only returned to post a complaint about contributors to this site being in some way responsible for the demise of this company.
There are many people on this site who do try and offer help, advice, warning and criticism to
wannabes based on their own experience and in some cases expertise. In my own 13 years of doing so, it seems that many people don't want to "listen" to anything that doesn't mesh with their own preconceptions or what they want to hear. However that doesn't matter. If it helps anybody at all, then the effort is worthwhile.
When it comes to integrated training providers, I have made my views known for some time. I have always referred to the "big 3" and anyone else is simply a runner up in these stakes. If you are going to invest big money in this type of training, then I really believe it is important to go the whole hog.
From what you have said, you are about halfway through the course? Obviously the later stages (multi engine, IR) are the expensive stages, and clearly that has a very adverse impact on your situation. Obviously it is repairable, but it isn't going to be cheap. I know that some ex-students have approached other integrated providers with a view to completion, and some are now completing their courses.
My advice (take it or leave it) is to look at where the airlines are currently taking cadets from, and direct yourself that way. That would have also been my advice in the Summer of 2010 and 2011, but it is never too late!
To rephrase the moderators advice given above:
1) never pay upfront more than a sum that keeps the training provider moderately ahead of the service they are contracted to provide. The good providers won't expect you to.
2) If you want to be a
cadet airline pilot you will nearly always need to go integrated. If you research where the airlines with cadet programmes source and train their cadets, you will soon realise they are heavily swayed to the "big 3" and even within that group it is not an equal balance.
3) The motives are often coloured by the contributors own training background. Often, but not always. Take all advice with a pinch of salt, and always be sceptical. Nevertheless, there are people in the heart of the industry that can tell you what is really happening if you really want to know. Sometimes that advice may be unpalatable, but that doesn't mean the observations are either wrong or misleading. Usually it doesn't take much research of your own to seperate the fact from the fiction.
4) Pilot shortages are almost never across the board. Pilots come in a whole spectrum of occupations and experience levels. Within these forums, the concentration is naturally what happens at the entry level. This is and always has been a fiercely competitive market that is well supplied and subject to very patchy demand. Schools selling a product (rather like anybody selling a product) will always talk up the market. That is natural and essential to their survival. Forums such as this provide a platform for individuals to redress that balance with less etherial discussion and a better spectrum of advice, comment and opinion and warning! Which rather neatly brings us back to the subject of your complaint.
I wish you well and hope that you are able to bite the bullet and recover from this enormous setback. That goes for anybody else in a similar position to yourself. It won't be easy. In six months time I really hope you will be able to post a tale of recovery, and I look forward to reading it. I understand your anger and frustration, but as you will realise eventually, it is currently directed at the wrong target.