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Old 4th January 2012 | 01:05
  #77 (permalink)  
soaringhigh650
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 563
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From: USA
anotherthing,

That is why VFR is not allowed in willy nilly.
Do you also argue to the military people that you should be able to fly willy nilly through active danger areas etc
VFR does not go in "willy nilly" in the US.
But VFR is allowed in under guidance and control in Class B or C airspace and under protection from IFR, etc.

You really need to understand the reasons behind airspace design and not just throw your toys out the cot because you can't fly wherever you want. It is an intense area of aircraft operation. The airspace is designed to provide protection. Whilst not maybe the most efficient use, it is also designed to allow as much Class G as possible, e.g. underneath.
I am not throwing my toys out of a cot. I was highlighting the fact that allowing as much Class G as possible:

1. Has made your operations within Class A probably more intense than it could be
2. Reduces or stops safe VFR access - flying in CAS is safer than OCAS
3. Increases the amount of infringements due to your complicated boundaries and base levels, as shown on my diagram.

Unless you are willing to dig deep and pay quite hefty charges to facilitate extra controllers and support staff and equipment, I'm afraid the Utopia you are after willl not happen... even then with extra controllers etc, entry will be subject to traffic, you would not get charged if you couldn't enter.
Some countries like the US and France pays for its ATC out of taxation. Other countries like Germany and Canada have approach navigation charges operating on a cost recovery basis. If there are AVGAS taxes it should fund ATC, airports etc. If there are no taxes, then of course the users should pay for it.

Should commercial traffic be given priority over general GA
There should never be priority between who's operating commercially or non-commercially.

In the US an ATC service is provided on a first-come-first-served basis with some exceptions, one being IFR aircraft having priority over SVFR.

Do you think VFR/SVFR should be allowed in the Class A portions of the LTMA?
Class A should be minimized whereever possible. This includes your lower airways too. All non-instrument rated pilots, regardless of what they are flying, ain't gonna like it.

And use of low level Class A is completely against the principles of AOPA.

What are your thoughts on the VFR route proposed by SoaringHigh in his picture, i.e. the straight line from Shoreham to Cambridge... any potential problems with it do you think???
No problems at all under IFR. As of today Eurocontrol accepts routing of OCK M185 BPK DCT BKY at FL 100 in the flight plan. On the day you might tactically vector me on another route under your direction, and I am happy with that.

I shouldn't expect this clearance to only be granted if I file IFR. Especially when it is clear VMC.

I'm afraid the Utopia you are after willl not happen... even then with extra controllers etc.
So if I file IFR there will always be capacity and when I fly VFR there will never be capacity? There's a deep rooted ATC issue somewhere.

5milesbaby,

The TMA airspace is mainly designated Class A on safety grounds, a card that will ALWAYS win.
I disagree. Your infringement numbers are evidence that this has failed.

Have you considered partitioning controlled airspace with different transit/approach/departure sectors for the different categories (ie. A,B,C,D) of airplanes on safety grounds? This includes both IFR and VFR which are operate safely under control.

One should study the infringement problem and compare your stats with other countries. I don't think us US PPLs navigate any less or better than our European trained counterparts. What is definitely true is that the airspace volumes are more predictable with concentric circles centered around VORs based at the airport or airspace boundaries following prominent visual features on the ground. Hence I'm not surprised places like Stansted keep getting busted on a daily basis.

My guess is that if some here firmly believe that all existing and complex Class A airspace should be left as it is and people prevented from access, these infringement numbers are never going to come down significantly. Good luck!
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