PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - NTSB says EMS accident rate is too high
View Single Post
Old 30th Dec 2011, 20:02
  #117 (permalink)  
ninja-lewis
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Further to Crab's reply, athough I have no involvement in SAR/HEMS, I am a local and can address some of SASless questions about the mine shaft death (based on the facts that came out in the Fatal Accident Inquiry rather than the media reporting):
So who in the area had a Stokes Litter or other Rescue Litter? Do the RAF or CoastGuard SAR aircraft carry such a device aboard the aircraft? I wonder if any thought was given to asking for their support in the mine shaft rescue?
The two fire engines that arrived about 15 minutes after the 999 call was made both carried sufficient "Safe Working at Height" kit to effect a rescue. The road ambulance (carrying two paramedics) that arrived at the same time also carried a Kendrick Extraction Device, which could have been used.
Less than half an hour later, the Fire Service Heavy Rescue Vehicle arrived, carrying in particular a thermal basket stretcher and a MIBS stretcher (also suitable). The Mountain Rescue Team that attended had their own McInness stretcher and rope access equipment.
 
That's not counting the specialist Scottish Cave Rescue Organisation if only they had been contacted sooner. Heck even the local Coastguard Rescue Service could probably adapt their cliff rescue equipment to do the job. Failing that they could even get the next over MRT and the neighbouring Lothian and Borders Fire Service Line Rescue Team. No doubt the Mines Rescue Organisation would also have been able to advice on a suitable rescue (particularly by allaying concerns about the stability of the shaft).
Crab covered what the RAF carried.

Part of every fire fighters basic training in this country requires rappelling, rope work, and rescue techinques. Every EMS wagon/aircraft carries and routinely uses immobilzation equipment. Fire Fighters are also dispatched to such calls and each unit carries trained EMT's amongst the fire wagon crew.
All firefighters in attendance had been trained in the use of the SWAH kit, which was routinely carried on their fire engines. Both the fire service and the ambulance had immobilsation equipment (frequently used for car crashes, which both services are highly trained in dealing with). All firefighters also had basic trauma care training, including the one who went down the shaft before the senior fire officers arrived. On top of this one of the ambulance paramedics volunteered to enter the shaft (before being prevented by a senior fire officer).

We have practiced Short Hauls of Emergency Personnel using helicopters for isolated area rescues in various fire units around the country.

How far away is RAF Kinloss and RAF Leuchars from the site of the mine shaft?
If requested by the Strathclyde Fire Brigade...would you have responded to the scene?

If requested....how long would it have taken for such a response?

Was the RAF contacted by the Strathclyde Fire Brigade about the feasibility of such a response?

Did the RAF Mountain Rescue Team(s) respond to that incident?
This was not an isolated area. It was ten minutes by road from a suitable hospital. The shaft was on a small hillock about 130 metres from a housing estate. The ground was too soft for the heavy fire engines but Land Rovers were able to drive right up with ease.

The RAF, RN and MCA routinely work with the other emergency and rescues (mostly Mountain Rescue).

The distances (as the crow flies) involved were 145 miles from Kinloss and 80 miles from Leuchars. Leuchars only has a RAF Moutain Rescue Team while Kinloss has both a MRT and RAF SAR helicopter flight. Neither are particularly relevant, however.
 
The two RAF MRTs would not have attended as Strathclyde Police maintained their own Mountain Rescue Team who in any event were the team best able to get to the scene quickly (there were also two other civilian MRT teams nearbyish).
 
Kinloss SAR would also unlikely to be involved as the SAR flight at RAF Boulmer was closer (110 miles) and even closer was the Royal Navy SAR flight (more or less the same capability as the RAF Sea Kings) at Prestwick Airport, a mere 10 miles away.
 
The Scottish Ambulance Service also maintains (government funded unlike the charity-run air ambulances in the rest of the UK) its own Air Wing of 2 EC135s and 2 fixed wing Beechcrafts. These are mainly used to transfer patients from the islands and remote areas of Scotland although they also do emergency response. Like other air ambulances in the UK this is primarily a day-VMC capability - although they sometimes operate to pre-arranged landing sites at night I believe. They are not equipped with winches. The nearest helicopter was at Glasgow Heliport (20 miles).
 
At the particular incident in question, the Police Sergeant at the scene contacted the Police HQ to ask whether the use of the RAF/RN SAR helicopters was appropriate. He was advised that it wasn't. No specific reason was given at the FAI but the sheriff "assumed that there were environmental obstacles and dangers to the helicopter and crew inherent in the descent of a winchman into a deep hole in the ground."
 
Not to mention that the weather conditions were recorded as foggy and extremely dark with dense and high vegetation in the vicinity of the hole.

At about the same time, the ambulance control room also made a call to Aeronautical Rescue Control Centre at RAF Kinloss to ask for assistance with search or flood lighting from a helicopter. This was also declined - possibly due to the weather conditions (fog) or perhaps the helicopters were already involved in other calls). Strathclyde Police could probably put their own helicopter up if the need was that great. In any event the fire service Heavy Rescue Vehicle carried flood lights, which were erected at the scene and provided sufficient lumination.
 
The answer pertains to the discussion about lack of service...rules getting in the way of getting the job done...and lives being lost as a result.
The rules that got in the way of "getting the job done" were not national regulations - indeed national legislation specifically allowed the fire service the flexibility to carry out the rescue operation. It was Strathclyde Fire and Rescue Service's own policies, rigidly but wrongly implemented by two senior fire officers who were both unfamiliar with the equipment and the training of the firefighters involved that prevented the firefighters from carrying out a rescue. Part of the problem was financial - the Fire Service did not want the SWAH equipment to be used for rescues because then they would have to pay the firefighters more for specialist skills.

They refused to allow the equipment to be used on the paramedic and the patient because they were not part of the Fire Service. They also ignored the expertise of external organisations who could at least provided advice on the rescue - because they didn't have the expertise to determine that those organisations would have been relevant!

I can't really see how this case can be used to criticise UK legislation or even "Health and Safety" (which is more often than mistakenly applied and a cover for the other issues). It was down to the judgement of two people who bearing in mind their subsequent appearances at the Fatal Accident Inquiry should not have been in those positions. If anything it sounds more similar to the situation in the States where it is incumbent upon individuals to self-regulate.

A fully qualified medical team could have been delivered by an EMS helicopter directly to the scene if it had been available. Shy of that....there is the RAF SAR units that could have been tasked despite their lack of first class life support equipment in their cab.
Why would you need an EMS helicopter to transport medics (at considerablely greater risk) when they could easily have got a taxi, let alone used official transport, from the hospital to the site in 10 minutes!

The patient didn't die because of a lack of "first class life support" - the senior fire officers simply did not have regard to the passage of time upon the patient's odds of surviving. Considering the equipment carried by the road ambulance and the proximity of the hospital, it's somewhat surprising they even bothered to use the air ambulance (the delay in the rescue was long enough for the sun to rise) for the very brief journey to the hospital.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about the capability our US Helicopter EMS operations can bring to a casualty amongst our UK friends. The modern EMS helicopter is not just a transport wagon but a fully equipped medical unit with two very skilled medical crewmen....usually one being a Flight Nurse and the other an experienced Paramedic with advanced training.
That doesn't sound much different to any UK Air Ambulance - which routinely carry two highly experienced paramedics if not a doctor. I don't think flight nurses are common in UK Air Ambulances - transfers and retrievals are usually done by specialist (cardiac, neonatal, etc) air-minded teams from the receiving hospital who bring their own equipment and don't really care whether it's a SAS air ambulance, RAF/RN Sea King or fixed wing (which can include anyting from one of the ambulance service's beechcraft up to a RAF Hercules depending on the conditions) that carries them.
 
You can have all the medical capability in the world; but it's no use if you crash on the way to/from the scene because your procedures, training and airframe are unsuitable for the conditions. That's why I'll take a RAF/RN Sea King or Coastguard S-92 every day of week if I'm stuck at night in the winter on Ben Nevis with a broken leg and hypothermia rather than the SAS Air Ambulance valiantly trying to reach me packed with doctors and fancy equipment. Let them stick to their day job and the almost-scheduled nature of the inter-hospital transfers they do at night for which they're resourced and trained to carry out. That is Crab's point I believe.
 
A situation described in the article linked by Brassed Off would have been an immediate call for an EMS helicopter in the USA....without any doubt what so ever....and one would have responded within minutes of being called. (With the usual assumptions about flyable weather).
So a HEMS helicopter would have been sent for what was initially described to the emergency services as a "fall from an embankment" on the outskirts of a major town on a dark night with fog (admittedly covered by "the usual assumptions about flyable weather") where both the fire service and a road ambulance can be in attendance within 15 minutes of the call being received and, from initial impressions of those at the scene, likely effect a rescue within two hours (bearing in mind the conditions at the bottom shaft meant it took 30 minutes to get the patient into the stretcher), which even a winch equipped helicopter is unlikely to improve upon?
ninja-lewis is offline