FH1100
You certainly know how to turn a polite, straight forward discussion into one that is confrontational. To make it worse, you add your demonstrated lack of knowledge, exaggerations and distortions (see below).
FH1100 says:
Because only a true idiot... would downplay the importance of… Asymmetrical-VRS
And only a “true idiot” could fail to realize that nobody on this thread has EVER marginalized the danger of A-VRS. Those who fly tiltrotors understand it far better than you ever will. That’s why not one aircraft has experienced A-VRS inadvertently in the past 11 years. I’m not sure how many times that has to be repeated before the significance of it sinks in. That doesn’t mean it will never happen again. It does mean that the post-Marana actions to train the pilots and equip the a/c to avoid it have been effective to date.
FH1100 says:
Whoops! You mean to tell me that WHEN a V-22 gets into A-VRS the crew won't be able to know which way it's going to "break?" Yikes!
That is true, and that is why all the post-Marana actions that have been successful so far were taken: to allow pilots to avoid the conditions that would permit A-VRS to develop.
FH1100 says:
Let us acknowledge that the Marana V-22 did not get into a sustained 2000+ fpm rate of descent at 300 feet above the ground. If it did, it was only a momentary excursion.
The logic claiming that because reaching that extraordinary vertical descent rate at that low altitude was only 'momentary' has no relevance. Yes the a/c was ‘momentarily’ at just over 2400fpm at 285 ft above the ground as it entered into a Vortex Ring State, but prior to that it was at 1900fpm, 2000fpm, 2100fpm, etc., getting deeper into the VRS envelope while rapidly slowing the aircraft forward speed with a tailwind present, and at the same time power was rapidly being pulled in to arrest the descent. Whether it be a helicopter or a tiltrotor, this scenario was going to result in a fatal crash.
FH1100 says:
Wait a minute. If an equivalent helicopter got into VRS at the same altitude as Majors Brow and Gruber, the helicopter would've settled vertically. If it hit the ground it would have done so upright, on its landing gear...
A CH-46 or CH-53 experiencing VRS with a rapidly increasing ROD starting from 2400fpm at 285ft AGL might allow it to hit wheels down, but the impact with the rotor system coming down around you and an inevitable rollover would almost certainly be fatal for all. And as far as recovery starting at 285ft with a 2400fpm descent and ROD rapidly increasing, sufficient time/altitude would not be available to lower collective and move the cyclic forward to exit the VR state before impact just as recovery for the V-22 was not possible at that point in time. Again, the key for both helicopters and tiltrotors is to avoid those conditions to begin with.
FH1100 says:
Lt. Col. Gross's article also does not answer my question, which was: How is the V-22 fundamentally "different" or "safer" now than it was back in 2000? Answer: It is not.
Wow, is this ignorance, arrogance or both? The pilots who have been flying the a/c and whose lives depend on it say, “it is a very different aircraft today.” You without any experience, knowledge, or connection to the program say, “it is not.” Those pilots who have flown the different a/c over time including the FSD, Block A, Block B, and Full Rate Production a/c including those with post production mods all attest to improvements that make the current production a/c very different from the a/c flown in 2000 (how many crashes have occurred due to hydraulic pipe chaffing like the one that occurred in 2000 is one easy example to back their claims). BTW, none of the pilots or support personnel I have spoken to or communicated with have ever claimed it is the perfect aircraft, in fact they all have their suggestions for additional improvements many of which they say are in the pipeline.
FH1100 says:
However I have never accidentally or inadvertently stalled an airplane. Why? Because the stall-warning horn gave me sufficient warning that I was approaching a critical angle of attack.
Wow, if that statement is true, you are an even a worse pilot than we have been led to believe! In the decades that I flew fixed-wing a/c I never once encountered a stall warning horn in normal flight operations that was needed to give me sufficient warning that the critical AOA was being approached. The only time I heard the stall warning horn was during training. We teach our students how to recognize and avoid stall conditions, and only engage them in imminent and full stall practice to instill immediate action responses in case they had screwed up and allowed the aircraft to be flown into a dangerous flight regime that should have been avoided. The stall warning horn is a last resort warning – if you rely on it to give you stall warning information on routine flights, you should not be flying. It is a very simple electronic device that is aerodynamically activated (AOA indicators are more advanced) – and they do fail!!
FH1100 says:
Now, I acknowledge that no A-VRS accident has happened since Marana. However, I will not go so as to say that another "Marana" accident will never happen again…
Nobody disagrees with that, but those flying the aircraft say that all efforts are being made to continue to do the best they can to see that the ‘goal’ of preventing a future reoccurrence comes true.
FH1100 says:
The article that 21st Century posted by Lt. Col. Gross tells us that the V-22 crew now gets a "SINK!" warning on their PFD and an audible warning if the a/s drops below 40 knots and the RoD gets to 800 fpm. Great. Those are pretty conservative parameters.
Agreed. Applying the standard US military helicopter limitations of 40kts/800fpm is certainly too conservative considering a tiltrotor will not enter VRS as early as a helo. The ex-CH-53 guys now flying the Osprey have said if they would at least make it 1200fpm the V-22 will still have a larger safety margin than a 53 over the 800fpm limit. However, looking at the safety record over the last 11 years it would be hard to argue changing it.
FH1100 says:
My book on the V-22 will be titled, "Fatal Flaw."
You should write that book, but it should be an autobiography instead as you’ve already chosen the perfect title.