PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - AF447 final crew conversation - Thread No. 1
Old 13th Dec 2011, 14:49
  #779 (permalink)  
Lonewolf_50
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
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shy talk:
PEI. No. Sure, the problem was with the flight path. But there would have been no problem understanding why the flight path was upwards had the PF been seen to be holding full aft yoke, like his life depended on it.
Have you ever made a full nose up input in the cruise?
The sidestick disguised what PF was doing from PNF (and anyone else on the FD).
It's clearly a big factor in what happened that night.
Respectfully disagree, and find Infrequentflyer789's comments more apt.
The problem (that a yoke might have made it easier to deal with) is that when the Captain, with his lack of knowledge of what had gone on before his arrival, arrived on the FD, he had less chance of instinively grasping the situation because PFs inputs were far from obvious.
Respectfully disagree.

A problem is that the Captain had fewer tools to hand as he arrived to sort out what had gone amiss.
He had to do this because of
THE problem (1)
Two pilots in the cockpit didn't sort out that they were bleeding off airspeed, nose up, into a stall.
THE problem (2)
The aircraft was stalled unintentionally without either pilot in the cockpit seeming to realize that the stall was entered, and then in progress.

This takes us back to the much discussed (a few threads back) stall warning issue.

My surmise is that both of them had the following idea/thought:

"A/S is unreliable, why listen to stall alert?"

As I see it, this cognitive matter (if true) is a critical causal factor.

Figuring out if that's true, and what to do about it ... nothing to do with yoke nor sidestick.
He almost certainly could not see the F/Os' sidestick in that dark cockpit.
Agree. But could he see the flight instruments, attitude, altitude, VSI, etcetera? That is where his clues of aircraft performance would be, in a Night / IMC flight.
Some may argue that had he seen what the F/O was doing, he'd be happy for him to continue holding full aft input as they fell. I think not, though.
No, probably not.
In fact, is there any evidence that the Commander even knew who was flying, never mind what they were doing?
Yes, he was giving directions at one point to the flying pilot regarding rudder input, among other things, apparently to help him with his roll control.
Nevertheless the combo of using sidesticks and not having them linked together or even in plain view was a contributory factor in this accident.
I can see it as a possible factor, but in terms of rank ordering, it is well behind the problem of two pilots misunderstanding their aircraft's condition for an extended period of time.
To argue otherwise is inane.
Respectfully, no.

I am sure you are aware that there is a great deal more to knowing your aircraft's performance than control stick/yoke position.
Hazelnuts.
Getting the nose up there didn't seem to cause him any trouble.
Why would pushing be so difficult?
Concur. All that is needed is first realizing "We are stalled," after which control inputs would most likely follow.
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