Ha, the forgivable loan, that is the best you can do. What a joke, you must be mentally deficient if you think that the forgivable loan could be counted as pay. Might be best for you if you just bow out of the conversation and try to salvage a bit of dignity mate, hahahhah, forgivable loan. Seriously, the company is going to loan you money to pay them to train you to make money for them, and if you stick around for six years they wont make you pay them back. You dont see something wrong with that logic? That is not pay. Cathays new package is crap no ifs ands or buts about it. How many highly qualified experienced crews are they attracting these days? Damn few that is certain.