Originally Posted by ALphaZuluRomeo
See the point? That's about "graceful degradation" if I understand the concept correctly.
Quite so. Concept is giving as much protection as realistically possible. With all air data gone but with reliable inertial reference, everything goes out the window except the load protection.
Originally Posted by CONFiture
BEA pretends Altn Law was the active Law all the way
BEA is Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la sécurité de l'aviation civile. It is the French authority responsible for safety investigations into accidents or incidents in civil aviation. It doesn't pretend. It states so, accepting the full responsibility for its words. Where is the problem with that? You have good arguments it was otherwise? Let's see them!
Originally Posted by Lyman
P/P is always the Drill?
It is. It wasn't applied here. No evidence so far supports the hypothesis that A330 flight controls systems prevented the application.
Originally Posted by airtren
if there was no "trimmed stabilizer" on a plane, the pilot did NO trimming at all
Nope. Even with fixed stab, elevator is trimmed for zero force, usually via tabs. I can't recall ever seeing aeroplane without pitch trim.
Originally Posted by airtren
We have the STALL condition being announced loudly - and after so much analysis, very clear in its meaning to us - and throughout the duration of that announcement, we have an "automation" decision/action of employing the "autotrim" to max NU, which obviously if it did anything, it helped the STALL.
Trim was applied IAW control demand. Demand came mainly from right hand sidestick. "Stirring mayonnaise" and "it went forward a few times" are incomplete, therefore inaccurate and possibly misleading description of SS movement. SS traces are available in interim 3.
Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789
Now, can anyone provide FCOM reference for the triple adr fail caveat on abnormal law entry conditions.... I don't think it's in there.
It isn't explicitly written, however FCOM reference is consistent with BEA explanation - since all air data were rejected neither speed<60 kt nor AoA>30° triggering condition could be met.
Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789
What extra authority does abnormal law give over direct ?
None. It just retains G protection.
Originally Posted by
TTex600
Green dot is not minimum clean speed. Green dot is L/D max. Considering this basic point, I fail to find it worth my time to further discuss this, or the AB with you.
Because you bring experience into the discussion, I've well more than three times the time you mention and have never NOT flown an aircraft that could simply kill me if I stalled them. But then again, I've intentionally stalled many a DC9 and am still here to tell the tale. Good day.
I am sorry you feel it this way but it really is not about contest between you and me. If it were so, I'd rather go down the PM path, in the unlikely event of finding debate worth pursuing further. As this is Profesional Pilots Rumour Network, open anonymous forum, I believe that details behind your temporary loss of control would be interesting to many a reader here. So what if your company allows regular operation below green dot while my does not? Is my wrong assumption that no Airbus operator would, reason enough to withdraw and retain all the information for yourself?
Nose refusing to go down when commanded so is definitively not normal behaviour of FBW Airbus, especially as with low speed you were far from high speed protection and I really doubt you hit G protection at -1. There must have been something else.
As for hours, they were not intended to illustrate my experience but that aeroplanes that are very likely to enter really unrecoverable stall are flying around in hundreds every day and no one makes a fuss about it. Every aeroplane equipped with stick-pusher is such. Now you mention DC-9, it's good example of T-tail without pusher (Super80's hydraulic elevator ram is not true pusher as it is not activated automatically) implying that T-tailed configuration is not automatically predestined to suffer from deep stall. BTW, there is no direct link between yoke and flight controls on DC9.