Steve there is no need to respond to VBPCGUY. He is actually a bag chucker from Melbourne, not even an engineer. What his beef is with you we have no idea? What is ironic is that if Joyce is successful at destroying QF along with wages and conditions, that might make Virgin the sole operating airline with a higher cost base per employee. What woul happen to Virgin staff like VBPCGUY? Well to start with it would be cheaper to have one of the third party contractors contracted to provide all the ramp handling at mainline ports, so VBPCGUY may find himself on less money and wearing a different color uniform but doing the same job. Junior, those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You haven't been with Virgin since it's inception so you don't know exactly how unloyal and ruthless they too can be. Don't think for a moment that Borghetti will sit by and allow a role reversal where his operating costs are greater than his competitors.