But how to get rid of Joyce and Clifford? They only thing you people have left is a mass walkout from EVERY section. Close the airline down, the Govt. (for want of a better word) will then step in and every thinking Aussie will then realise something is terribly wrong with management, and terribly wrong in the company. A huge decision I know, but obviously you all cannot go on like this, you can detect the distress in some of these blogs as your livelihood's are being threatened. All the strikes and pilots PA's are destabilizing for the company, which might in the long turn finally bring Joyce down, but at what cost to the rest of you? It needs to be quick and clean, and it needs somebody with the balls to lead the company, ALL of the company in revolt. I know it all sounds far fetched, but what is your alternative. The bloke is taking the company to the wall, knowingly taking the company to the wall, whether it is to bring it to its knees, fire the lot of you and bring you back on JQ contracts or what, I have not a clue. We all know Asia, we all know how the Asians feel about us, Japan tolerates, Indonesia loathes, Philippines needs our support, Thailand needs our tourists, China does not need help from anyone. Do they need our airline, well, no. Asia is littered with the bones of companies who thought that the Asians could be bought, it would all be money for jam, and why Joyce is going down this path is a absolute mystery, or absolute stupidity. Look at TE, going gangbusters, CX ditto, happy and thriving in their own little patch, and here is QF taking on the world, madness. Something has got to give here, sooner or later, and far better that is be managment, and have somebody who knows what they are doing take over, be it Norris or whoever, lets hope its sooner.