Thanks for the input italia. Some computer operated planes are made to be passenger friendly and when they turn they turn very slowly. Hence my objection to your explanation and my reference to a bad boy from ATC. Other aerodromes around the world have similar departures to EDDF and speeding up and cleaning up will take you out of their protected zone. That is really the question to be answered if established cannot be found anywhere. An airway has 4 miles of protection, does established mean I am inside the 4 miles and headed in the right direction?