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Old 1st Sep 2011, 04:41
  #3405 (permalink)  
TJHarwood
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Surrey
Age: 85
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DozyWannabe/Amos2

The Welsh Wingman is on holiday with his grandchildren in Florida, but I doubt that he would have any idea what "Indie" music is (I had to ask!).

Please remember that, whilst he tries to contribute in as widely accessible language as possible, he comes from a very different world/era to you (and so do I!).

This is where he learnt his airmanship, deck landing 45 year ago on carriers that were "so large" (!) that one or two may have carried Swordfish FAA squadrons when initially commissioned into the Royal Navy a generation earlier.

Pilot's Cockpit Layout - Buccaneer S.Mk.2B

No pretty glass cockpit or even pretty AoA indicators, whether standard or optional, but instead AoA trained on audio ADD (cross-referenced to ASI/AUW) whilst optically focussed on the carrier centre-line.

I flew with him, years later with the same airline, both as a F/O (and later as a Captain in the RHS, oh how times have changed...) in the RHS of several B741s.

The point he is making in relation to "feedback" and yoke v (dead) SS is relevant because, as I have previously discussed with him via PM, it relates to the pivotal question of what inhibited the more experienced (if not PIC) PNF from taking control of the aircraft no later than 2H 10 31. It may have made no difference, but we definitely know the consequences of his not doing so (even if the CDB had rectified the position after 2H 11 43, it was by that stage well beyond "a logbook entry" and outside of safe flight ...). Did the absence of a clearly visible yoke in front of the PF or SS interconnected feedback to the LHS SS make a difference to the PNF, or was it all in his DNA/training?

It may be that a visible RHS yoke and interconnected LHS SS, unambiguously visibly spelling out the PF's commands, may have made no difference to the PNF's actions/omissions whatsoever, but the question has to be asked in the context of AF447 and the CRM/cockpit discipline issues that are under scrutiny. I think it was the Welsh Wingman who first drew attention to Stony Point in these threads, so he has never suggested that it is the panacea for all ills (even without more recent "yoke" repetition with Colgan Air and West Caribbean) and he has no "agenda" to pursue.

Trust this clarifies? I suggest you PM him regarding these issues.

Last edited by TJHarwood; 1st Sep 2011 at 06:21.
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